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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by diydry View Post
    I totally would too! Maybe we can write the company to tell them that.

    The "Contact Us" button on the Lumify homepage gave me this link: http://www.bausch.com/our-company/chat

    Might be worth a shot.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rebecca Petris
    replied
    Originally posted by Vivid Panda View Post
    Thank you very much for your thorough response. You are definitely correct in saying that very few people, including myself, are familiar with the risks associated to BAK. Would you say that the PF Clear-eyes multi symptoms eye drop is a safer bet? I've just been dealing with this chronic redness for a while and I'm about ready to start doing whatever I can for it. I suffer from dryness as well but I use refresh optive-3 eye drops and they seem to be effective in keeping the eyes adequately lubricated.
    Sorry, just saw this. It's a hard question. The ClearEyes Pure Relief Multi-Symptom is the only preservative free one so it's safer in the long term in terms of preservative damage but the redness reliever ingredient itself is much more likely to cause rebound redness if used regularly. Hard calls for sure !!

    Leave a comment:


  • Oliver
    replied
    Originally posted by Rebecca Petris View Post
    Yes, and

    Yes to this too

    There's no free lunch, sadly.... With all redness relievers, it's all about relative risk. Minimizing risk would look like both PF and infrequent use.

    Redness is a really frustrating problem when it's chronic. In some cases there's not a lot that can be done safely at all. But in many others, continuing to hunt for causes - including any and all OTC or Rx eyedrops that may be causing some irritation even while it's helping in other ways - and using remedies without side effects (cold compresses, cold saline rinses, etc) - and getting the best possible diagnosis and treatment plan for dryness, etc, can yield results.

    I think that a lot of people with chronic redness end up in double jeopardy from chronic use of allergy drops and redness relievers.
    Hi, I find this frustrating too.... For a few years I have had an issue with red veins that look too noticeable on the whites of the eyes and hoped maybe Lumify would be good. Sometimes they look more noticeable than at others (not so sure why; but hot weather doesn't seem to help, I don't think), but my eyes never look as white as I'd like. Doctors say my meibomius glands don't work well and so I use a dry eye drop called Vismed Multi, but sometimes I think maybe using that a lot might cause some irritation in itself. And some doctors have said I should be using hot compresses and lengthy pressing on the lid margins etc.. but if I do it regularly I seem to find that my eyes just look redder...

    At the moment I am trying a combination of things like using the lubricating drops but not too often, only when really needed and not more than around 3x a day, using humidifiers, using warm pads once a day for just a few minutes to loosen the oils a bit but not doing the pressing.. but also after a hot shower I do a bit of quick massage of the lids sometimes.

    I take omega 3 and also sometimes I put in some saline drops to make my eyes feel refreshed and sometimes use a cool pack for just 30 seconds or so (because I find it I use a cool pack for long then there's rebound redness from that...).... :-/

    Seems hard to find the right combination of things to keep the eyes comfortable, not too dry and not too red.... Last year I paid for a session of Lipiflow, which they combined with quite aggressive pressing of the lids afterwards, but it seemed to make the dryness worse if anything and irritated my lids...

    I also just got a soft eyeshield thing that's meant to keep your eyes moist overnight to try...

    I'm not sure what you meant by Rx eyedrops that can cause irritation? I've never tried PF....

    Thanks for the info on these forums.


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  • farmgirl
    replied
    Just a note for all red eye sufferers. Be aware that eyes will look red under florescent light. So if you are at work and you go into the bathroom and there are florescent lights in that room and you look in the mirror you may go OMG my eyes look awful! Yes in that light I guarantee they do but in real light or LED they don't. I remember the first time I noticed this I thought I had developed some awful infection but when I got home they looked normal (well as normal as mine ever look). If you have those pigtail lights in your bathroom try changing them out for LED's and see if that makes a difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rebecca Petris
    replied
    Originally posted by Vivid Panda View Post
    Would you say that the PF Clear-eyes multi symptoms eye drop is a safer bet?
    Yes, and
    I think PF clear eyes would still have rebound redness.
    Yes to this too

    There's no free lunch, sadly.... With all redness relievers, it's all about relative risk. Minimizing risk would look like both PF and infrequent use.

    Redness is a really frustrating problem when it's chronic. In some cases there's not a lot that can be done safely at all. But in many others, continuing to hunt for causes - including any and all OTC or Rx eyedrops that may be causing some irritation even while it's helping in other ways - and using remedies without side effects (cold compresses, cold saline rinses, etc) - and getting the best possible diagnosis and treatment plan for dryness, etc, can yield results.

    I think that a lot of people with chronic redness end up in double jeopardy from chronic use of allergy drops and redness relievers.

    Leave a comment:


  • diydry
    replied
    I totally would too! Maybe we can write the company to tell them that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Regarding the BAK, can't the company just sell these in single use vials? I understand it would be more expensive but I would buy it.

    Leave a comment:


  • diydry
    replied
    I think PF clear eyes would still have rebound redness. Maybe just save it for special occasions? I have not used it personally so perhaps others with firsthand experience can weigh in on this product.

    One user mentioned the role of glasses to cover up the redness. Would some kind of lightly tinted glasses help to reduce the perception of redness? Isnít green opposite red on the color wheel?

    Leave a comment:


  • Vivid Panda
    replied
    Thank you very much for your thorough response. You are definitely correct in saying that very few people, including myself, are familiar with the risks associated to BAK. Would you say that the PF Clear-eyes multi symptoms eye drop is a safer bet? I've just been dealing with this chronic redness for a while and I'm about ready to start doing whatever I can for it. I suffer from dryness as well but I use refresh optive-3 eye drops and they seem to be effective in keeping the eyes adequately lubricated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rebecca Petris
    replied
    Originally posted by Vivid Panda View Post
    1) Even though lumify may further dry the eye, does it really matter if we take artificial tears? The tears themselves dont work depending on the level of dryness right? They work the same regardless of how dry your eye is and will lubricate it effectively.
    When we talk about Lumify drying the eye, we're talking about potentially permanent damage caused by frequent exposure to the preservative benzalkonium chloride (BAK). This preservative causes damage at several different levels and this has been well documented by the most reputable research sources. Please see:

    http://forum.dryeyezone.com/forum/tf...onium-chloride

    They [artificial tears] work the same regardless of how dry your eye is and will lubricate it effectively.
    Yes and no. They "work" in the sense they provide temporary lubrication. They don't "work" in the sense that they do not provide sufficient symptom relief for an awful lot of people (hence the existence of an entire industry for dry eye). This forum is testament to the fact that artificial tears are nowhere near enough for many people.

    2) There has to be some legitimacy to the eye drop in regard to rebound redness, toxicity, etc. It's been FDA approved. So we are talking about millions of dollars and countless trials done to check the safety and viability of this drop.
    That's incorrect.

    The FDA does not approve over the counter eyedrops, period. That's now how the regulatory process works. They approve prescription drugs. I'll give an example of that though FWIW:

    BAK-containing prescription drugs for glaucoma ARE all FDA approved. These BAK-containing glaucoma meds have caused or exacerbated dry eye in countless elderly people. There has been a slow, slow shift in the industry over the last 10-15 years to start producing preservative free glaucoma drops and doctors have gradually been switching to prescription glaucoma drops with milder preservatives or no preservatives. But that process of change moves at a glacial pace. There is no magic moment at which the FDA says Hey, this is dangerous, we're pulling it from the market. It's a long, slow education process.

    Since that process has been so slow, and so difficult, for something even as important and widespread as glaucoma prescription medications, I think that makes it easier to understand the fact that no one, I mean no one, is paying attention to the problem of OTC drops with BAK. This is something I want to get some publicity for during Dry Eye Awareness Month this year. The warnings on the labels are terribly inadequate. Cornea specialists understand the harmfulness of frequent BAK exposure, but so many eye doctors, and certainly the public, don't.

    To be clear all I've said is addressing the BAK part of the risk. BAK is slow acting. Rebound redness is a whole 'nuther ballgame. Lumify claims to have a much lower risk of that.

    Leave a comment:


  • diydry
    replied
    LASIK surgery has been FDA approved, which should tell you something about the level of risk acceptable to the FDA. My cynicism regarding medical device regulation aside, I think long-term use of any drug is probably best avoided unless there is a very good medical reason. Maybe ask your doctor about it before you start taking it, bring the bottle with you to the doctor's visit, ask them if they say they are comfortable with you using it more than once in a blue moon, like during a job interview or a wedding. Then again I thought Lumify was not a vasoconstrictor like Visine so I thought the greatest risk to taking it would be from BAK, although now I'm hearing that they are all vasoconstrictors with rebound redness risk.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vivid Panda
    replied
    To be honest I'm a bit confused with what people are saying.

    Obviously nothing should be misused and using any drop 4x a day is probably excessive but I also don't think its as big an issue as people are saying to use lumify in conjunction with having dry eye issues. I have MGD and have had it for several years now. I don't use warm compresses or anything due to the fact it aids inflammation and can possibly warp the cornea. I do use refresh preservative free eye drops though and take fish oil.

    So a few things.

    1) Even though lumify may further dry the eye, does it really matter if we take artificial tears? The tears themselves dont work depending on the level of dryness right? They work the same regardless of how dry your eye is and will lubricate it effectively.
    2) There has to be some legitimacy to the eye drop in regard to rebound redness, toxicity, etc. It's been FDA approved. So we are talking about millions of dollars and countless trials done to check the safety and viability of this drop.

    I get it may not be the best. But I don't think it can really be as dangerous as people are currently saying. That being said, I'd love to be proven otherwise as I am considering taking the eye drop (irregularly) and rather have all the information clear.

    Leave a comment:


  • redhombre
    replied
    In other words chronic red eyes people, we're screwed. Lumify doesn't seem to be safe for long term use

    Leave a comment:


  • Rebecca Petris
    replied
    Just for clarification... we're talking about the multi-symptom product not the dry eye product.

    No free lunch ever on any redness reliever I'm afraid! A vasoconstrictor is a vasoconstrictor is a vasoconstrictor. Rebound redness is always a risk.

    What really gets me is that the labeling is so painfully inadequate. Sorry for the rant but... First it says you can use them up to 4 times a day. Then in the warnings it says"
    • Overuse may cause increased redness of the eye.
    BUT does it say what constitutes overuse? Nope.

    Furthermore, it says "Stop and ask a doctor if... blah blah blah... symptoms last more than 72 hours..." BUT that same same label is on the perfectly harmless artificial tears too.

    Only consolation to me is, those that overuse these, at least they're not getting the BAK in addition to the rebound effect. Sigh.

    /rant

    Leave a comment:


  • Franklin1987
    replied
    Rebecca Petris Is CE Pure Relief safe to use on daily basis without any rebound? Have you heard if it reduces inflammation?

    Leave a comment:

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