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  • #31
    Rest assure Rebecca, no apologies needed. But let just say that I never critised someone for not having an unpreserved option available (I don't think you can point out any post in which i did that). We were talking about ointments and there are alternatives where Christina lives (see above I posted some options, you seem to have missed it so maybe that's why you say...). My post was a constructive one. I basically said: 1) talk to your doc and discuss with him the choice of an unpreserved options. 2) if you take preservatives do so knowingly... to limit the risks (for instance people taking serveral preservatives are more at-risk) 3) preservative are more costly so what i said is that it may be worth the investment.

    That's not critising Christina or anyone... it just happened to be Christina's post but if you go back to all my previous post you'll see that what's I said all along.

    So no personal attacks really I'm just trying to get the info out.

    Ok take care
    K


    Originally posted by Rebecca Petris
    p.s. If I sound unduly terse, I apologize. I do sincerely appreciate the concern you have for members and your wanting to make sure they are aware of all their options and the potential risks and benefits that comem along with them. The reason I have been reacting as I have is that I do not want members to feel like they're liable to be scolded if they sometimes choose to use preserved products, particularly when an equally effective unpreserved one is not available. I am sure that is not what you intend, but that is how some posts occasionally come across to me personally.

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    • #32
      Hello,
      rest assure Lucy, I never went about "a war" before Rebecca suggested that there might be one. I just restated a word [ war ] i did not pick for this discussion. But there never was one on my part and I believe yours.
      Besides I'm not a war person myself orthewise I wouldn't have dedicated my life to humanitarian law.
      But you or anyone are allowed to think my posts are boring and not read them obviously...liekwise if you think we are overdoing it... this information is not compulsory (people pick what threads they want to read, or even the author (so for anyone out there: skipping my posts is wise if you want to avoid hearing about the consequences of preservatives). I just hope I'm allowed to say the reason why I defend a very cautious approach towards preservatives and to say that for some of us the preservative issue has a huge importance. Possibly those of us worried are a minority... dunno... I do not have that impression... maybe we could even do a poll on that?

      So i guess it's clear for everyone there no war going on just a debate on preservatives i hope we can restart on the core of the subject soon.

      Take care, Lucy, in whatever way I think you should... and don't force yourself to be too shallow if that means not posting anymore, I think a lot of us like to "read" from you and are looking forward from reading from you.
      K

      PS: I can typewrite with my eyes closed... I do check a bit afterwards. That and my foreigner English may be an extra burden on you all... sorry.

      Originally posted by Lucy
      Kakinda, I wouldn't know a preservative war if it hit me in the face. Absolutely not. I don't read your long posts on scientific stuff because I can't concentrate and read that long. Frankly, I personally find them boring...not yours in particular, but any scientific posts, especially long ones. Others might like to read them, I'm sure. Not sure where you went there about "a war." I am too old to be at war, don't have the energy and especially against another person with dry eyes!

      I just said that some may find the preservative thing of little importance. Anyhooooooooo, I'm outta here on this subject. Too deep for me. I love being the shallow person I am. I don't any particular points to make. Love, Lucy

      PS. The reason I can type such long posts (albeit my bad eyes) is that I'm a secretary, can type fast and don't need to look at the screen as you can probably tell by some of my errors. Most everything is sans proofreading. It's just too much effort.
      Last edited by kakinda; 28-Mar-2007, 02:12. Reason: typo and missing words

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      • #33
        Rebecca,

        I just want to make it clear that even if that request of disclosure did not come from me, I support it very much. On a similar note i posted my own motivations above that could explain to some extend a biais against preservatives in general ...but i do intend to pursue that based on studies not personal motivations and such.
        I don't have any opinion on any drops made by the DECompany because I don't have studies on them (I don't have a personal experience with them either)... and never read any study on one of the 2 preservatives. I can talk about several preservatives is studied lately (but i can't talk about this specific polyquaternium (n42) Rebecca mentioned above).
        I may talk about polyquaternium or polyquad but that will not be applicable to the poly42 in Dwelle (or is it Dakrina? I dunno).
        So my post are on preservatives in general not a personal attack against you, the company or anyone else. it's intended for all companies that use preservatives and as I said above some preservatives are clearly more worrying than other.
        I prefer to state this from the start so that there is no misunderstanding on my motivations... one last time: preservatives in general. Sorry for the repetition but I want this to be very clear to avoid conflicts such as above. maybe it's my English, if so I apologise.

        I can certainly agree with you point c) for myself as well... it's only opinions, sometimes my own, sometimes based on studies. Yes, whatever the opinion confirmation homework is wise.

        I think we could start exchaging opinions on studies rather than on personal reactions to posts side-notes.

        take good care
        K


        Originally posted by Rebecca Petris
        One final (I promise, sigh) note. I've been told privately that if I publicly offer opinions about preservatives I ought to preface it with a conflict of interest disclosure. That came in the context of a post I made in mild support of Genteal Gel as a reasonable option for a someone to try. I was told in essence that my moderate position about preservatives can be construed as motivated by a need to defend Dr. Holly's drops (which contain a preservative) in which I have a financial interest.

        My answer to that, briefly, is:

        a) Technically, I have a conflict of interest related to every product in The Dry Eye Shop. I own The Dry Eye Company, The Dry Eye Shop, The Dry Eye Zone etc.

        b) As a practical matter, I have never experienced any personal gain from any product in The Dry Eye Shop. I don't even draw a salary, let alone profits. If/when my company starts minting money, you'll know it, because I'll be posting work-from-home job openings for disabled dry eye patients on this bulletin board. (Yes, I'm serious.) Meantime, I think I'm pretty much disclaimed up the wazoo, as I've littered the site and board with my history and my relationship to the company and board and site and to Dr. Holly's drops.

        c) My opinions are my opinions. Nothing more, nothing less. This site is full of my opinions. Take them for what they're worth (often very little), and do your own homework.
        Last edited by kakinda; 28-Mar-2007, 02:09. Reason: typo: wrote bias the French way biais... some brain automatism while typing eyes closed!

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        • #34
          Edit:

          I consulted a 3rd party who I think is more objective on this matter and they felt that closing the thread was not the right decision, so I have re-opened it.

          I want to make it clear that the reason for the temporary closure was not to discourage discussion of the issue, but that I was very bothered by what I felt amounted to an online "who can shout loudest or longest" contest. I do not feel that the community has been well served by this thread, as opposed to useful, readable, informative posts and links presented with respect for others.
          Rebecca Petris
          The Dry Eye Zone

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          • #35
            Ointments and why not always good

            Originally posted by Julie1
            Hi all,

            I'm a little concerned about some information that Dr. Latkany shared a few days ago regarding ointments. I have been using Refresh PM for about two months now, and it has really helped me to sleep comfortably through the night. However, I'm concerned about long-term damage to my oil glands.
            Julie
            Hi Julie! In addition to Dr. Latkany's info about mineral oil-based ointments (vaseline too) the other known long-term hazard is mechanical. As I understand it, the eye's surface is nourished by the tears that contact it. Mineral oils can physically obstruct tears from touching the eye (oil doesn't mix well with water), and therefore over a long period of time (like a night) starve some of the eye surface cells of this nourishment.

            This may be why the water-based gel drops are being recommended by some over the mineral oil ointments. Oil-based drops like Refresh Endura also include emulsifiers which allow oil and water to mix, keeping the eye in contact with both the naturally-secreted tears, and any water-based component of the drops.

            This is all just my own non-expert understanding.
            ---
            Blepharitis leads to MGD causes dry eye?
            Dry eye drops cause eyelid irritation exacerbating Blepharitis?

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