New to the forum! Eye problems out of nowhere!

[MGD1701]

Manual expression
Best find a skillful doctor for better results & safety too. 3 doctors did for me but not effective as no warm compress and only use 1 q-tip.
Best is to collect all objective data first then decide. If you have blockage, for sure you need to remove it sooner for relief and save money too. The longer, is bad as more effort/difficult too.

oil quality, how do your doctor recommend you to improve this then?? If they recommend IPL, then likely you have inflammation, rosacea then doxy helps.

[Alix]

Hi the doctors at Moorfields have all recommended taking Omega oil and flaxseed supplements to improve lipid quality but so far I have not seen any improvements. Or it could be that my eyes would be even worse if I had not been taking this, who knows.

[Guest]

Hi do work! I do sleep on my eyes when I sleep, I put my head into the mattress I also sleep on my back occasionally. my fiancé hasn’t noticed me sleeping with eyes open however it could be a real possibility. Sometimes before I sleep I see the light on and wake up. As if my eyes may be opening, but that’s rare to happen. My eyes don’t feel good upon waking up however a drink of water and one eye drop in each help. They feel better in the morning and gradually get worse throughout the day, leading to photophobia at night :/

Ask someone to check and see if your eyes open just a tiny bit. It’s hard to see, so ask them to use a light from an iPhone or something to check if there’s a gap exposing your eye. Also, sleeping on your side and face into the pillow/mattress pulls the lid open. So you could be agitating your eyes in your sleep and not know it. The classic signs of FES are low Schirmer, low Tbut, mild or no staining and high OSDI score. A man that is 40-65 that is possibly overweight (not necessary but often occurs), sleeps on side, snores...all these things could be causing you to have issues at night. Not sure if that’s the issue, but now you can check and see. Maybe eliminate it as a possibility at the least.

[Topher3]

Meibum Ian Yes this was the Dry Eye Centre. They told me I have EDE due to incomplete blinking and loss of >50% of meibomian glands. My tears are evaporating immediately therefore my eyes are in a permanent state of dryness.

Apparently there is no way to regenerate meibomian glands, once they are lost that is it. Also eye surgery will not solve incomplete blinking, so the best I can do it manage my condition.

So for now I have been given steroid drops and once the inflammation has gone down, I am to be prescribed Ikervis (which may or may not work for me).

In the meantime I am to sleep with moisture goggles. In the long term they said scleral lens may help to prevent my eyes from drying out, but I am rather sceptical as if I am unable to do full blinks now, it will be even more difficult with scleral lenses in my eyes.

thanks Alix for the kind words. I’m 99% sure I partially blink so blinking exercises would be beneficial to me I believe. I had a meibography done and he said there was scar tissue and it didn’t look too good. But I told him to do it again because it didn’t look very clear. After he redid it they looked a lot better so I can’t really trust meibographies. I also went to a very well renowned opthamaologos(one of the best in Australia) and he said that “meibographies are too hit and miss to rely on an accurate diagnosis”. He said it can look different one minute to the next:

he said that lots of people who have MGD have watery eyes because there is no oil to hold the water on the surface. But I don’t have any of that, he believes my aqueous deficiency is causing most of my unconfortability. I cannot think of anything that can cause that, apart from a the hypothesis of a virus inflaming eye tissues affecting normal functionality there’s just no way this happens over night for no reason I can’t believe it.

with your mgd do you have watery eyes? If not does that mean you could have a lacrimal gland problem too?

topher

[Topher3]

Ask someone to check and see if your eyes open just a tiny bit. It’s hard to see, so ask them to use a light from an iPhone or something to check if there’s a gap exposing your eye. Also, sleeping on your side and face into the pillow/mattress pulls the lid open. So you could be agitating your eyes in your sleep and not know it. The classic signs of FES are low Schirmer, low Tbut, mild or no staining and high OSDI score. A man that is 40-65 that is possibly overweight (not necessary but often occurs), sleeps on side, snores...all these things could be causing you to have issues at night. Not sure if that’s the issue, but now you can check and see. Maybe eliminate it as a possibility at the least.

thanks dowork, but how can sleeping with eyes slightly open cause this much of an affect on someone’s life. Maybe you’re right in saying that it could be one problem of multiple that could be attributing to my issues.

I will get moisture chambers and start eliminating possibilities, great idea.

I have gamed a lot throughout my life, and got a new computer monitor before all this happened, thinking back I was sitting pretty close to the screen due to it being a shallow desk. I was probably playing 4-6 hours a day, not sure if that’s enough to cause problems and have (eye strain as a cause, but I don’t think eye strain lasts for 9 months). Low oil in glands probably points to gland loss / blockages. So that could be the biggest factor.

Is it possible for low oil flow and having not too damaged glands, or is it 9/10 times something wrong with the glands microstructure? Because they say the oil that seems to be coming out is clear, so that’s point to damage right?

Over the passed years I haven’t eaten well at all so maybe a change of diet rich in vegetables and vitamins may help.

my ophthalmologist recommended coenzyme q10 and said it helps people. Have you heard anything about that?

thanks

topher

[Guest]

thanks dowork, but how can sleeping with eyes slightly open cause this much of an affect on someone’s life. Maybe you’re right in saying that it could be one problem of multiple that could be attributing to my issues.

I will get moisture chambers and start eliminating possibilities, great idea.

I have gamed a lot throughout my life, and got a new computer monitor before all this happened, thinking back I was sitting pretty close to the screen due to it being a shallow desk. I was probably playing 4-6 hours a day, not sure if that’s enough to cause problems and have (eye strain as a cause, but I don’t think eye strain lasts for 9 months). Low oil in glands probably points to gland loss / blockages. So that could be the biggest factor.

Is it possible for low oil flow and having not too damaged glands, or is it 9/10 times something wrong with the glands microstructure? Because they say the oil that seems to be coming out is clear, so that’s point to damage right?

Over the passed years I haven’t eaten well at all so maybe a change of diet rich in vegetables and vitamins may help.

my ophthalmologist recommended coenzyme q10 and said it helps people. Have you heard anything about that?

thanks

topher

Ok, heres how I see it...try to keep your eyes open for 30 seconds. It hurts so bad there’s no way you can last 30 seconds....well what happens if you keep your eye just slightly open for 5-8 hours? Yes, that’s extremely painful. Then, you keep your eyes open to use them during the day. So they never heal.

Also, because the lids do not touch, they dry out and get inflamed. It also leaves them open for bacteria to come in. So I think the reason the glands get sluggish and the oil changes, is because they’re open all night. Once I taped my eyes shut, the gritty, burning went away 90%. Im still struggling a bit, but I’m better.

You can have bad oil and slow glands and have 100% functioning glands. I have perfect glands, but the oil was foamy and grey. It should be like olive oil. So if they say your oil comes out clear, that’s very good. I still believe you need a Lipiview to see the glands in person...that’s the only way to know is to take a picture.

You may be a partial blinker too. The lipiview will tell you that also. Food is crucial, I would start taking a high quality omega 3 supplement. Even though your oils run clear...the omega 3 will help with inflammation and also just increase the quality of your oil. Can’t see a harm unless you have a blood clotting disorder.

I gamed my whole life...not a little, a lot...6-10 hours a day for years. I remember playing so intensely I would probably only blink a dozen times during a 10 minute match. I could feel my eyes burn...but I had to stare at the screen for movement. I don’t think this caused my issue...but it was one of many factors that caused it. I believe I put my eyelids through a lot of stress during those years. It is definitely possible I’ll tell you that.

[Topher3]

Ok, heres how I see it...try to keep your eyes open for 30 seconds. It hurts so bad there’s no way you can last 30 seconds....well what happens if you keep your eye just slightly open for 5-8 hours? Yes, that’s extremely painful. Then, you keep your eyes open to use them during the day. So they never heal.

Also, because the lids do not touch, they dry out and get inflamed. It also leaves them open for bacteria to come in. So I think the reason the glands get sluggish and the oil changes, is because they’re open all night. Once I taped my eyes shut, the gritty, burning went away 90%. Im still struggling a bit, but I’m better.

You can have bad oil and slow glands and have 100% functioning glands. I have perfect glands, but the oil was foamy and grey. It should be like olive oil. So if they say your oil comes out clear, that’s very good. I still believe you need a Lipiview to see the glands in person...that’s the only way to know is to take a picture.

You may be a partial blinker too. The lipiview will tell you that also. Food is crucial, I would start taking a high quality omega 3 supplement. Even though your oils run clear...the omega 3 will help with inflammation and also just increase the quality of your oil. Can’t see a harm unless you have a blood clotting disorder.

I gamed my whole life...not a little, a lot...6-10 hours a day for years. I remember playing so intensely I would probably only blink a dozen times during a 10 minute match. I could feel my eyes burn...but I had to stare at the screen for movement. I don’t think this caused my issue...but it was one of many factors that caused it. I believe I put my eyelids through a lot of stress during those years. It is definitely possible I’ll tell you that.

yes eyes being open during the night I can see inflaming the ocular surface, however when we sleep our meibomian glands are stagnant regardless though bacteria could get in and very well sit and disrupt homeostasis.

what can cause these glands to slow? If they’re not blocked? Does bad food make them sluggish? Does vitamin deficiencies make them sluggish? I got very little vitamin D over the past 3 years due to indoors working and not really going outside at all. Can a vitamin D deficiency contribute to this? When I pull down my lower lid I can see most of my glands some aren’t visible. Am I meant to be able to see my glands at the top of my inner bottom eyelids?

i do believe I am a partial blinker I very lightly blink I notice. I’ve begun blinking exercises. I just don’t know what to think, one optometrist who did the meibography says there seems to be scar tissue. He said it must be from a sty but I have never had a sty in my eye how can there be scar tissue? Two other ophthalmologists never did a meibography but looked at my glands and said they’re not too blocked and said there was oil. I’m just so sick of these dr’s giving me inconsistent diagnoses.

Even with you gaming all that time you still have 100% of your glands. does that mean you are not a partial blinker? Do u have MGD or have possible thyroid/ hormonal disorders causing your problems?

[Guest]

yes eyes being open during the night I can see inflaming the ocular surface, however when we sleep our meibomian glands are stagnant regardless though bacteria could get in and very well sit and disrupt homeostasis.

what can cause these glands to slow? If they’re not blocked? Does bad food make them sluggish? Does vitamin deficiencies make them sluggish? I got very little vitamin D over the past 3 years due to indoors working and not really going outside at all. Can a vitamin D deficiency contribute to this? When I pull down my lower lid I can see most of my glands some aren’t visible. Am I meant to be able to see my glands at the top of my inner bottom eyelids?

i do believe I am a partial blinker I very lightly blink I notice. I’ve begun blinking exercises. I just don’t know what to think, one optometrist who did the meibography says there seems to be scar tissue. He said it must be from a sty but I have never had a sty in my eye how can there be scar tissue? Two other ophthalmologists never did a meibography but looked at my glands and said they’re not too blocked and said there was oil. I’m just so sick of these dr’s giving me inconsistent diagnoses.

Even with you gaming all that time you still have 100% of your glands. does that mean you are not a partial blinker? Do u have MGD or have possible thyroid/ hormonal disorders causing your problems?

When the eyes are closed, the eyes are moist and the glands are covered. Tears are antibacterial...if the eye is open and then dries out, you’ve lost another barrier.

Dryness causes inflammation and partial blinking duesnt express the gland. That will make it sluggish. Hormones, diet, autoimmune disease...there are so many reasons why this can happen. I’m just trying to look at the basic problems first. Based on what you said, I felt may may have a similar problem to myself.

I am am a partial blinker...but as I heal my cornea and get sensitivity back...my blinking has become more complete. My eyes don’t feel full and stuffy anymore. I played video games my whole life, from 8 years old on. It didn’t cause my problem directly. But I guarantee it contributed to it. I believe dry eye is cumulative, I’ll give you myself as an example. I wore contacts from 16-23 then I rejected them, I played video games my whole life, I drive A LOT, I took steroids, I have hypothyroidism, I smoke pot, I sleep with my eyes open...then I got dust in my eyes and boom. Everything just got so bad I couldn’t function and I’ve been trying to get things ok again ever since. My eyes are healed but they’re still so dry.

So im not sure what your factors are...the fact that the oil is coming out is a good sign. The sooner you attack this the better off you will be. Just be open to listening to your doctors, get second and third opinions and think twice before doing any procedures. It could be a very simple fix.

[Alix]

@Topher3 No my eyes are not watery. I do not have aqueous deficiency, though the amount of tears I am producing is not great either.

The main problem is with the top layer, lipids - there is little being produced, what is being produced is of poor quality, and then is not spreading over my eyes due to partial blinking. Not a single doctor has mentioned the middle layer, so I don't know if I have a lacrimal gland problem or not, but I probably do. The fact that the top layer is unstable means it is likely the layers underneath are disrupted as well.

By the way I bought moisture goggles on line, while I am waiting for them to arrive in the post, I taped my eyes shut last night after putting in eye drops.
For the first time in a long time,I did not have a burning sensation when I woke up, though it's starting to come back now.

I am hoping in the long term, by protecting my eyes at night it will help along with everything else. You should try it as well, you have nothing to lose.

[Alix]

Dowork123 That is all I could ever wish for, a simple fix!!

[MGD1701]

I had a meibography done and he said there was scar tissue and it didn’t look too good. But I told him to do it again because it didn’t look very clear. After he redid it they looked a lot better so I can’t really trust meibographies. I also went to a very well renowned opthamaologos(one of the best in Australia) and he said that “meibographies are too hit and miss to rely on an accurate diagnosis”. He said it can look different one minute to the next:

Meibographies, is it LipiView I or II (better than I) or something else?
what does dr mean ''too hit.... ... can look different one minue to the next??
I have never heard such statement. Did he suggest any alternatives then? But renowned opthamalogos does not mean dry eye expert.

Watery eyes
I had constant watery eyes even after LipiFlow. I hardly have it now since a few days after using pure HOCL,NatraSan spray, Avenova alternative, which I have found, 3rd attempt though, out of curiosity since all +10 doctors said I had no inflammation. Avenova only available in USA. This is to control bacteria overgrow. I dont know why it helps but I tried it anyway as most/many opinion leaders in USA recommend such spray - I did do lots of research.

[Guest]

Meibographies, is it LipiView I or II (better than I) or something else?
what does dr mean ''too hit.... ... can look different one minue to the next??
I have never heard such statement. Did he suggest any alternatives then? But renowned opthamalogos does not mean dry eye expert.

Watery eyes
I had constant watery eyes even after LipiFlow. I hardly have it now since a few days after using pure HOCL,NatraSan spray, Avenova alternative, which I have found, 3rd attempt though, out of curiosity since all +10 doctors said I had no inflammation. Avenova only available in USA. This is to control bacteria overgrow. I dont know why it helps but I tried it anyway as most/many opinion leaders in USA recommend such spray - I did do lots of research.

He he never told me if it was Lipiview, he was an optometrist and had a machine that could look through to the glands. He said it looks like there’s a lot of scar tissue, and that “I will be like this forever” he then went on to sell me Manuka honey eyedrops as it will “help stabilise my eye drops and tears” he also sold me a gel to put in the lower lid to help with controlling any bacteria that was overflowing. Needles. To say it made my eyes so bad and have me permanent veins that have not left since using it for a month.

however the ophthalmologist said when I went for a checkup (mind you 200$ later) that meibographies are not reliable as one scan from the next can show a indescrepancies. He also said I have a aqueous deficiency and that scleral lenses are the best way to go. He said that it if you wear them for three years you may not have a problem anymore something to do with calming nerve endings. He told me to get scleral lenses and (move on with your life) haha!!!!!

Is lipiview a meibography? My main problem is dryness and I feel irritation around my inner brow bone area feels dry as if there’s dust or something in there it’s a really weird feeling.

Life really sucks

[Topher3]

MGD1701

not sure if its lipiview, it was an optometrist and he used a machine that looked at my glands. He said “I would have this problem forever” due to saying he saw scar tissue. Don’t know how there’d be all that scar tissue there when my eyes were fine 3 months before that scan. he then went on to sell me Manuka honey eye drops and eye gel “to help stabilise tears” which burned like hell and did nothing but increase the amount of veins I have in my eyes now.

I went to to an ophthalmologist and he said that meibographies are inconsistent And not always accurate. He then went on to tell me to buy scleral lenses as they could help with my nerve endings and possibly bring things back to normal in 1-3 years. It didn’t feel like it was in depth at all and he told me to continue with IPL. The Schirmer test done before I went into the ophthalmologist was like only 5 seconds, I thought it had to be like 5 minutes. He from that said I had an Aqueous deficiency. Told me to “move on with my life” with the scleral lenses. He also said “to stop searching there is no cure, scientists don’t know what causes this all you’re doing is giving yourself panic attacks for something you cannot change”

it was as a very very sad day.

[Topher3]

Alix Hey I think you and my problem is very very similar. I would definitely try manual gland expression see if that helps. It hasn’t done much for me, but without clogged glands I can’t see manual expression being too helpful for moderate to severe dry eye. I’m very intrigued with nutrition though, I believe that consistent and long term nutrition may be able to help with oil levels and inflammation. Vitamin deficiencies are also very important to address. I just bought moisture chamber goggles too and are waiting for them in the post as well.

[MGD1701]

Dont listen to people who can not even correctly perform schirmer - just sell you things. There are more NEW treatment opinions. But you must

collect objective data = accurate diagnos

If scar tissue, you might need probing etc. so this is important.

Schirmer is not objective especially just done once. You are right, should be 5 min.

Expression: helps as it removes obstruction - that is super important.

Lack of Vit. D, A, iron, zinc will affect dry eye. diet matters. After taking omega 3, GLA, my oil quality has been much better.

One member, debbie? from NZ come to Syndey for a professor who helped her. Maybe you could try to locate her posts. Her issue is diet.