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  • [NON] Policy regarding doctor names

    Dear all,

    Effective immediately we're implementing a policy of mentioning no doctor names here in public forum posts.

    I know that for the most part, people don't much anyway, so hopefully this won't cramp anyone's style much. But this step is both in response to potential legal issues and some credible reports of predatory marketing practices by a doctor.

    Thanks for your understanding and cooperation

    EDIT: OK, so this was a really bad idea, and done without thought and conversation. Please disregard. Sorry. Instead, we're going to have a conversation.
    Rebecca Petris
    The Dry Eye Zone

  • #2
    Itís interesting because Iíve seen this before when I was looking through old posts. Clearly I wonít mention the docs name. But it seemed like members here were posting on his behalf. Could have very well been that doctor doing that. You never know who is behind a screen name unless you know that person well.

    What else is interesting, every forum Iíve been on lately has needed to implement new rules. Some good, some odd and some straight up garbage lol. Changes the vibe sometimes but what can you do. Better than being fed false information though.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Rebecca Petris View Post
      Dear all,

      Effective immediately we're implementing a policy of mentioning no doctor names here in public forum posts.

      I know that for the most part, people don't anyway, so hopefully this won't cramp anyone's style much. But this step is both in response to potential legal issues and some credible reports of predatory marketing practices by a doctor.

      Thanks for your understanding and cooperation
      I beg you to reconsider. [praying emoji]

      It is INCREDIBLY useful to have doctors names on the forums.

      Can legal issues not be prevented simply by saying no bashing of doctors by name? So positive experiences are allowed in public, but negative ones are not?

      When one has severe dry eyes, we are the uncommon freaks of the eye world... it is exceptionally difficult to figure out who is worth seeing, and who is not.

      Personally, having doctors names mentioned here has SAVED ME literally THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS since without their names, the only way to get a sense of whether or not they can help me would be to spend money to fly out to see them, pay for a hotel, and so on. [sunglasses smiling emoji]

      Whereas because they were discussed in the forums BY NAME, I knew what kinds of treatments they offered, I got a sense of the community's experience with them, and was able to save the money of seeing them because I knew I could get that treatment where I lived, or that the treatment they offered wasn't likely to be the holy grail of dry eye treatments for me (although maybe for others, it is), etc.

      One gets a sense of trends over time if one sees the same names popping up again and again, it's so useful for making decisions on whether or not to fly out and see someone, or not. [thumbs up emoji]

      Additionally, in regards to predatory marketing... users who are genuine are easy to recognize in general. They make lots of thoughtful posts over a period of months or years. They don't name drop and then disappear. The forum search function allows us to see all posts by a user to get a sense of what they're about. I feel like not being able to discuss doctor names will do WAY more harm than good. [sad emoji... not the crying one though, just the plain frowning one, and definitely NOT the mad emoji]

      Is a user threatening to sue you over recommendations people have made in this forum? If so, they're an a__, [angry emoji] but I get why you'd have to block all doctor names. [sunglasses smiling emoji]

      But if it's just to protect us from predatory marketing, then please, please, please do not do this. It will cause far more harm and wasted money on doctor visits in faraway places than it prevents.

      Unfortunately, PM's to ask for doctor names really aren't good enough. :-(

      1. Members may not see a PM sent to them years after they last posted.

      2. Personally, I've disabled PM's since I simply cannot respond to everyone who asks me questions on an individual basis - my eyes are too sensitive, and I have to meter out the time I spend on the forum to make sure my eyes can still handle all the other stuff they need to do. It is a FAR more efficient use of my time to post in public where EVERYONE now and in future can benefit from the time it takes to write the info. And I'm sure many forum members feel the same. Sharing in public is so much better for our eyes, and the community as a whole.

      I NEVER would have seen a certain doctor in Boston who treated corneal neuralgia patients (who has since passed away) if I hadn't seen his name in this forum. Although my PROSE lenses didn't work out, to this day, I benefit enormously from one of the treatments he suggested - a treatment that still is not mainstream or recommended as a general rule (dextromethorphan... readers can search the forum for my posts on the topic). I'd be suffering from constantly burning eyes RIGHT NOW if it weren't for this forum mentioning that doctor by name. I'd be having to consider treatments with a worse side effect profile for my burning eyes if it weren't for that doctor being mentioned by name in this forum. But thanks to his name in this forum, I saw him, he helped me, and my eyes don't burn every minute. And I'm sure there are countless others like me who would tell similar stories of how they were able to access the right help from the right doctor because he/she was mentioned by name in these forums, whether they are registered forum members, or folks who simply read this forum without posting

      And on the other hand, there are at least 4 doctors who I'd have had to fly out to see - incurring thousands of dollars in expenses - to find out what their treatments were, if their treatments were worth my while. But thanks to this forum and the posts about their treatments, anecdotal talk of results, I SAVED THAT MONEY! :-) I'm not saying those docs I chose not to see were bad, only that the info in this forum helped me see that they were not right for me at this time. And any doc who truly wants to help people would prefer that people don't waste their time and money to see them if they can't be helped by what they have to offer.

      Please do not ban doctor names from being mentioned on this forum. We NEED this info to remain public. It is already so incredibly difficult to research a doc, and this forum is an important source of info. Again, I totally understand a no-doctor-bashing policy for legal reasons. [praying emoji]

      But if we have something positive to say, or if we want to share a doctor name so others will know who to approach if they want to try a specific treatment that's not widely available, it is INVALUABLE to have that info in public on this forum.

      Please, please, please, please, PLEASE reconsider. [praying emoji] I honestly feel choked up even writing this. People like me who are total dry eye freaks who regular docs don't know how to help have such an enormously difficult time finding docs who can help us. Without this forum, I wouldn't know half the names of doctors who are actively involved in developing new treatments for this awful condition - it provides hope, if nothing else. I need that info. [hopefull-looking blushing emoji if there is one... because it's the closest there is to what I mean] And many other users on this forum do, too. Without doctor names, we're back in the dark, with no-one to turn to.
      Last edited by SAAG; 23-Jan-2019, 07:56. Reason: adding text emoji things because I see now that this came across totally not the way I intended
      Yet another post-Lasik (2005)...
      Anyone have a time machine so I can go back and undo this mess?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SAAG View Post

        I beg you to reconsider.

        It is INCREDIBLY useful to have doctors names on the forums.

        Can legal issues not be prevented simply by saying no bashing of doctors by name? So positive experiences are allowed in public, but negative ones are not?

        Despite the real risk of predatory marketing, I believe the benefits of allowing docs names FAR OUTWEIGH the downsides.

        When one has severe dry eyes, we are the uncommon freaks of the eye world... it is exceptionally difficult to figure out who is worth seeing, and who is not.

        Personally, having doctors names mentioned here has SAVED ME a ton of money since without their names, the only way to get a sense of whether or not they can help me would be to spend money to fly out to see them, pay for a hotel, and so on. Whereas because they were discussed in the forums BY NAME, I knew what kinds of treatments they offered, I got a sense of the community's experience with them, and was able to save the money of seeing them because I knew I could get that treatment where I lived, or that the treatment they offered wasn't exactly the holy grail of dry eye treatments, etc. One gets a sense of trends over time if one sees the same names popping up again and again, it's so useful for making decisions on whether or not to fly out and see someone, or not.

        PM's to ask for doctor names aren't good enough. :-( Members may not see a PM sent to them years after they last posted.
        Couldn't agree more with SAAG

        I think coming across information about good doctors are one of the most desirable benefits of being a part of this forum.

        I think both insensitive criticism or flattering advocacy of any medical practitioner should be monitored and scrutinized. Sharing of positive experiences with a particular medical practitioner can provide invaluable guidance to those clueless dry eye sufferers who can't figure out things themselves and eventually become too frustrated to pursue the fight due to lack of quality medical care.

        8 out of 10 people would stop seeing doctors and accept their fate as it is when they don't find someone who really knows how to treat dry eye and can assure the patient that dry eye is treatable (instead of saying that dry eye has no cure and you are doomed forever). So reference to good doctors who can provide cutting edge treatments early is both physiologically and psychologically beneficial to the visitors and members of this forum.

        Please reconsider and amend your policy in this regard if possible.
        Last edited by Milo007; 22-Jan-2019, 11:49.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sigh.

          Okay, I obviously went about this in a totally wrong way, and I got what I deserved. I engaged in a knee-jerk response to something that was happening that absolutely had to be addressed, laid down a policy without a conversation. This was a good reminder to me that I need to step back from emotions, and open conversations, not shut conversation down before it starts.

          SAAG... I have to say... I'm not really heartless, arbitrary or ignorant . I'd have honestly felt better if you'd gotten on the phone and yelled at me than how I feel after scanning (I couldn't finish reading) what you wrote. But then... my bad for going about it the wrong way. I didn't mean to hurt anyone.

          So I'm sorry. I really am.

          Let's start over. A better route is to present you guys with a problem, and hear your ideas about the solutions. In the circumstances, because I can't talk about the circumstances, I have to find a way to re-frame this in my own head and what questions to ask. So I'll circle back and post again a little later okay? But I want to be clear that any alternative that involves continuing to name doctors (which, I agree, we do need) is going to involve members stepping up to help. I haven't had any volunteer moderators in a long time, and really need them.

          In the meantime just to clarify, re legal issues. I was not actually talking about liability, and honestly it would never occur to me to worry about a patient suing. Defamation is another thing, but that's always been manageable too. I've always had a policy of no doctor bashing, and in my opinion it has worked well though of course not everyone agrees. At worst, I have received lawyerly nastygrams and cease-and-desists over the years from doctors. Most of that is reasonably straight sailing. For example, there was a situation where the AAO itself had criticized a procedure that only one (very well known) doctor was engaging in, he turned around and did something (threatened or sued them to smithereens or I don't know what) and got them to withdraw their statement, and then hired lawyers to cleanse the internet of the history, so they came after me because someone once upon a time posted a copy of the AAO's statement. Removed it, problem solved, never heard from them again. But I digress All in a day's work....
          Rebecca Petris
          The Dry Eye Zone

          Comment


          • #6
            OK... I am a little calmer (I think).

            I'm going to start a completely new thread about this, for the sake of fresh conversation.

            SAAG I've finally read and heard and taken on board all you're saying

            Milo007 some good points there

            Does anybody mind if I get rid of this thread? I just kind of want to go back and re-start.
            Rebecca Petris
            The Dry Eye Zone

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Rebecca Petris View Post
              OK... I am a little calmer (I think).

              I'm going to start a completely new thread about this, for the sake of fresh conversation.

              SAAG I've finally read and heard and taken on board all you're saying

              Milo007 some good points there

              Does anybody mind if I get rid of this thread? I just kind of want to go back and re-start.
              Yes I will mind if you delete this thread because I will miss your cute posts :-D

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Rebecca Petris View Post
                Sigh.

                Okay, I obviously went about this in a totally wrong way, and I got what I deserved. I engaged in a knee-jerk response to something that was happening that absolutely had to be addressed, laid down a policy without a conversation. This was a good reminder to me that I need to step back from emotions, and open conversations, not shut conversation down before it starts.

                SAAG... I have to say... I'm not really heartless, arbitrary or ignorant . I'd have honestly felt better if you'd gotten on the phone and yelled at me than how I feel after scanning (I couldn't finish reading) what you wrote. But then... my bad for going about it the wrong way. I didn't mean to hurt anyone.

                So I'm sorry. I really am.

                Let's start over. A better route is to present you guys with a problem, and hear your ideas about the solutions. In the circumstances, because I can't talk about the circumstances, I have to find a way to re-frame this in my own head and what questions to ask. So I'll circle back and post again a little later okay? But I want to be clear that any alternative that involves continuing to name doctors (which, I agree, we do need) is going to involve members stepping up to help. I haven't had any volunteer moderators in a long time, and really need them.

                In the meantime just to clarify, re legal issues. I was not actually talking about liability, and honestly it would never occur to me to worry about a patient suing. Defamation is another thing, but that's always been manageable too. I've always had a policy of no doctor bashing, and in my opinion it has worked well though of course not everyone agrees. At worst, I have received lawyerly nastygrams and cease-and-desists over the years from doctors. Most of that is reasonably straight sailing. For example, there was a situation where the AAO itself had criticized a procedure that only one (very well known) doctor was engaging in, he turned around and did something (threatened or sued them to smithereens or I don't know what) and got them to withdraw their statement, and then hired lawyers to cleanse the internet of the history, so they came after me because someone once upon a time posted a copy of the AAO's statement. Removed it, problem solved, never heard from them again. But I digress All in a day's work....
                I think we should take collectively responsibility of reporting any offensive or objectionable posts made regarding any healthcare professional or organization as soon as we come across them. In this way the moderators can modify or delete the content early without causing problems. The key part is to spread the awareness among all of us that we must report possible incidences of a derogatory post made regarding a doctor (by name) and bring it to the attention of the moderators or the administrators as swiftly as possible. I believe it's not possible without the involvement of ALL of the members of this community because it would be a really tough job for the moderators to monitor each and every post made in more than atleast 5-6 threads on a daily basis. So let's make a pledge to avert controversies in every way possible and take collective responsibility because this forum is second home to us and none of us would want it to be shut down owing to a legal issue.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rebecca Petris View Post

                  SAAG... I have to say... I'm not really heartless, arbitrary or ignorant . I'd have honestly felt better if you'd gotten on the phone and yelled at me than how I feel after scanning (I couldn't finish reading) what you wrote. But then... my bad for going about it the wrong way. I didn't mean to hurt anyone.
                  OMG, I promise you that I was NOT mad at you - not even a tiny bit mad. And anyone who has seen all the time and effort you've put into these forums over the years would know full well that you are not heartless, arbitrary, or ignorant. You are the OPPOSITE of those things - I know it, and anyone whose been on this forum long enough to feel like they know you would know it too. And yell at you? OMG... if you could see my horrified face at the very thought of that... Rebecca, believe me, any sane person who knows you through these forums would never, ever want to yell at you - not ever. Hug you because we're so grateful for these forums? Definitely. Yell at you? Never.

                  See, that's why we need the emojis to work again... omg... [insert emoji showing me looking horrified] I could have made it much more clear that I wasn't mad if emoji's were working. (But no pressure on that either... honestly... you have enough on your plate.)

                  I'd hate to think you'd think I was mad for even 1 second Rebecca Petris because I truly wasn't. My intention was to just lay out my case for reconsidering your decision, that's all - more of a passionate plea - but not an angry rant... and I tend to be long-winded, so, you know... I end up writing a LOT [blushing emoji]

                  You're probably sleeping right now, so it'll be a few hours before you see this... but I hope you see it soon after you wake up because I don't want you thinking that was an angry post for even one extra second.

                  It was nothing more than a long-winded passionate plea... with my intention being to lay out all the benefits I've experienced from doctor names on these forums and the downsides I saw to no longer allowing it, all for you to consider just in case you might agree with me after reading it... but zero anger was involved, there was literally not even a second of anger in me as I wrote that. But whatever decision you make in the end, there will be no hard feelings. Of course I hope you will reverse the decision... but even if you choose not to, I'd never think anything bad about you. [insert heart emoji and sunglasses smiling emoji]
                  Last edited by SAAG; 23-Jan-2019, 07:50.
                  Yet another post-Lasik (2005)...
                  Anyone have a time machine so I can go back and undo this mess?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rebecca Petris View Post

                    Okay, I obviously went about this in a totally wrong way, and I got what I deserved. I engaged in a knee-jerk response to something that was happening that absolutely had to be addressed, laid down a policy without a conversation. This was a good reminder to me that I need to step back from emotions, and open conversations, not shut conversation down before it starts.

                    Let's start over. A better route is to present you guys with a problem, and hear your ideas about the solutions. In the circumstances, because I can't talk about the circumstances, I have to find a way to re-frame this in my own head and what questions to ask. So I'll circle back and post again a little later okay?
                    Sounds good. And no pressure - honestly, whatever you decide is ultimately fine. I feel passionately about the outcome I want, BUT, it's still your decision and I have ZERO hard feelings either way. I really want you to know that.

                    Originally posted by Rebecca Petris View Post
                    In the meantime just to clarify, re legal issues. I was not actually talking about liability, and honestly it would never occur to me to worry about a patient suing. Defamation is another thing, but that's always been manageable too. ... Most of that is reasonably straight sailing.
                    Oh good - I'm glad to hear it!


                    Last edited by SAAG; 23-Jan-2019, 08:44.
                    Yet another post-Lasik (2005)...
                    Anyone have a time machine so I can go back and undo this mess?

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      SAAG I'm sorry. I know you weren't. It just felt like it in the moment. A little too much emotion floating around in my life right now. I was eventually able to go back and take it all on board in the way it was meant and it helped. I wasn't serious about the yelling and you're quite right about the emojis. Reminding me once again how many pitfalls there are in online communication
                      Rebecca Petris
                      The Dry Eye Zone

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rebecca Petris View Post
                        SAAG I'm sorry. I know you weren't. It just felt like it in the moment. A little too much emotion floating around in my life right now. I was eventually able to go back and take it all on board in the way it was meant and it helped.
                        Thank goodness, I'm so glad to hear that! I've been thinking about you since I read your post this morning.

                        Originally posted by Rebecca Petris View Post
                        I wasn't serious about the yelling and you're quite right about the emojis. Reminding me once again how many pitfalls there are in online communication
                        :-)
                        Yet another post-Lasik (2005)...
                        Anyone have a time machine so I can go back and undo this mess?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rebecca Petris View Post
                          A little too much emotion floating around in my life right now.
                          One word: Headspace. This has SAVED me from so much mental pain, it's crazy. It's like some miracle calming spell that lasts for hours after I do it. And the more days in a row I do it, the stronger the beneficial effects.

                          That must sound crazy to be soooo enthusiastic about it, but it's been absolutely amazing for my state of mind. Not only has it helped me shut off the very strong state of despair that took hold of me a while back (due to my eyes going to hell again), but it even helps me be less stressed and more patient with my kids (even though the meditations have nothing to do with parenting) which a wonderful bonus for all of us.

                          I'm still working my way through the Basic meditations, plus the Stress one. I do a minimum of one 10 minute meditation before I go to sleep... if my mind feels very active and wound up thinking too much, I do 20 minutes at bedtime... if I'm feeling pretty relaxed about life in general, I just do 10 minutes at bedtime.

                          And most days, I do an additional 10 minute meditation outside on the beach. If I were home in Canada, I'd choose a park for this purpose.

                          When I finish the Basic meditation exercises and 30 days of Stress meditations that I'm currently working through, I'm going to move on to the Anxiety ones to see what I can learn from those (hopefully it helps even more with the worry side of things, although the existing meditations have already helped with that). After that, I plan to do the Pain ones (in the hopes of learning a few tricks to better manage the mental side of things when my eyes hurt... although currently my eyes are feeling pretty darned good, to be honest... and of course, the true test will be when I try to get back to work on my online biz stuff).

                          P.S. And I'm sorry to hear you're going through a tough time right now, whatever the cause.
                          Last edited by SAAG; 23-Jan-2019, 15:19.
                          Yet another post-Lasik (2005)...
                          Anyone have a time machine so I can go back and undo this mess?

                          Comment

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