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  • #16
    I pretty much have 0 oil, and I have no burning in my eyes. It however could be bacteria from the mites? Could be causing a burning, what do you think? Everyone has a bit of red in their inner eyelids if you can say thereís pink then itís hard to believe the inflammation is that high. Because Iíve seen how bad it can get and when I was bad there was no pink to be seen. Increased friction may cause inflammation however I have low oil but with a fully functioning lacrimal gland I feel minimum friction. This is a hard one to work out

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Topher3 View Post
      I pretty much have 0 oil, and I have no burning in my eyes. It however could be bacteria from the mites? Could be causing a burning, what do you think? Everyone has a bit of red in their inner eyelids if you can say thereís pink then itís hard to believe the inflammation is that high. Because Iíve seen how bad it can get and when I was bad there was no pink to be seen. Increased friction may cause inflammation however I have low oil but with a fully functioning lacrimal gland I feel minimum friction. This is a hard one to work out
      Something strange is happening with me for the last few months. When I go to sleep I have a pinkish appearance of the corners of my eyes and light reddish or sometimes pale pinkish appearance of the inside of my eyelids. But when I am waking up in the morning the corners of my eyes appear slightly reddish and the inside of my eyelids appear bright reddish. The reddishness subsides within 30 minutes after waking up. I initially thought I was not taping my eyes correctly. But the way I tape my eyes now it is impossible for my eyelids to open up even slightly. I am confused what's causing this.

      Only two possible causes that I can think of :

      1. Sleep apnea like Dowork123 has. This is releasing inflammatory mediators throughout my body and ocular surface causing the problem.

      2. Demodex dying out at night over the ocular surface releasing bacteria and other exotoxins invoking a host of inflammatory processes.

      I am surprised as to how complex this disease can be. I have some COPD and occasional gasping (breathlessness) during sleep. Maybe the sleep problems started a year ago making my MGD severe from mild or moderate before.

      I need to undergo a sleep study to ascertain this. Life really su**s at the moment.
      ​​​​​​

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Milo007 View Post

        Something strange is happening with me for the last few months. When I go to sleep I have a pinkish appearance of the corners of my eyes and light reddish or sometimes pale pinkish appearance of the inside of my eyelids. But when I am waking up in the morning the corners of my eyes appear slightly reddish and the inside of my eyelids appear bright reddish. The reddishness subsides within 30 minutes after waking up. I initially thought I was not taping my eyes correctly. But the way I tape my eyes now it is impossible for my eyelids to open up even slightly. I am confused what's causing this.

        Only two possible causes that I can think of :

        1. Sleep apnea like Dowork123 has. This is releasing inflammatory mediators throughout my body and ocular surface causing the problem.

        2. Demodex dying out at night over the ocular surface releasing bacteria and other exotoxins invoking a host of inflammatory processes.

        I am surprised as to how complex this disease can be. I have some COPD and occasional gasping (breathlessness) during sleep. Maybe the sleep problems started a year ago making my MGD severe from mild or moderate before.

        I need to undergo a sleep study to ascertain this. Life really su**s at the moment.
        ​​​​​​
        Yes this disease is ****ed up, I was reading a research paper and it said, Iím paraphrasing, based on how complex this disease is and how many causes there itís truly astonishing it affects such a small minority of the population.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Topher3 View Post

          Yes this disease is ****ed up, I was reading a research paper and it said, Iím paraphrasing, based on how complex this disease is and how many causes there itís truly astonishing it affects such a small minority of the population.
          According to google there are millions of people out there suffering from some type of dry eye disease but I literally donít know a single person in real life who has this. Nobody understands when I try and explain what it feels like to have sandpaper eyes. It is a lonely disease.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Alix View Post

            According to google there are millions of people out there suffering from some type of dry eye disease but I literally donít know a single person in real life who has this. Nobody understands when I try and explain what it feels like to have sandpaper eyes. It is a lonely disease.
            I had dry eyes before it turned into this. If you asked me if they were dry, I would have said no. But only because I had no idea what dry eyes were. So if they mean that people have that type of dry eye, yeah, itís s lot of people. But theyíre not complaining. Because the dryness isnít controlling their lives. If my dry eye never got triggered into this horrible state. I woukd have dry eye and not even really know it. I thought I had allergies.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Alix View Post

              According to google there are millions of people out there suffering from some type of dry eye disease but I literally donít know a single person in real life who has this. Nobody understands when I try and explain what it feels like to have sandpaper eyes. It is a lonely disease.
              Don't worry at all. Either you will have a lot of people around you who would be on the same boat or you will never find a person with dry eyes including you in the coming 10 years.

              The latter will be the case if the stem cell regeneration technology rolls out as a cure.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Dowork123 View Post

                I had dry eyes before it turned into this. If you asked me if they were dry, I would have said no. But only because I had no idea what dry eyes were. So if they mean that people have that type of dry eye, yeah, itís s lot of people. But theyíre not complaining. Because the dryness isnít controlling their lives. If my dry eye never got triggered into this horrible state. I woukd have dry eye and not even really know it. I thought I had allergies.
                I guess our cause might be the same. Only a sleep study would tell. If I am ignorant now I may never forgive myself afterwards.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Milo007 View Post

                  I guess our cause might be the same. Only a sleep study would tell. If I am ignorant now I may never forgive myself afterwards.
                  What has you leaning in this direction? I know you mentioned you weee possibly having events at night or COPD like symptoms. I know that smoking is making my issues worse. Once I can get consistently potent cannabis again, Iíll start vaping (heating to 300 degrees no combustion) and see if that helps my lungs.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Dowork123 View Post

                    What has you leaning in this direction?
                    I don't know exactly. But what could be the possible cause of a reddish conjunctiva after a few hours of sleep provided I am taping my eyes very well?

                    I am waking up with red eyes even if my conjunctiva is perfectly pale and pink before I tape my eyes at night. Same happens after an afternoon nap with the MCG on.

                    I am pretty sure it's not the failure of the taping method because my eyes cannot open up even voluntarily after I tape my eyes (unless I remove them it's quite impossible).

                    So what else could be the reason?

                    Inflammatory mediators being stagnant under a closed eyelid (due to pressure over the eyelids blocking the tear ducts possibly?) causing more inflammation?

                    Or is it demodex? (Don't wake up with bright red eyes every morning so can't really say if it's demodex or not)

                    I found a good article that might explain things but on a probable basis :

                    https://www.reviewofophthalmology.co...at-morning-eye


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dowork123 View Post
                      I know you mentioned you weee possibly having events at night or COPD like symptoms. I know that smoking is making my issues worse. Once I can get consistently potent cannabis again, Iíll start vaping (heating to 300 degrees no combustion) and see if that helps my lungs.
                      Do you have a lung problem due to smoking or is it a congenital problem?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Milo007 View Post

                        Do you have a lung problem due to smoking or is it a congenital problem?
                        I answered this but it must have timed out. So annoying. Anyway, I donít think itís genetic. You gotta understand Iíve been smoking pot for 22 years. Iíve been smoking hash heavily for 6 years. Itís jist really really bad for your lungs. I can tell they donít expand like they used to. Theyíre hard. Itís effecting my sleeping. I breathe out and just donít breath back in. I hold my breath. Thatís why my sleep apnea is so insidious. I didnít snore until this last year. I was quietly choking myself.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Milo007 View Post

                          I don't know exactly. But what could be the possible cause of a reddish conjunctiva after a few hours of sleep provided I am taping my eyes very well?

                          I am waking up with red eyes even if my conjunctiva is perfectly pale and pink before I tape my eyes at night. Same happens after an afternoon nap with the MCG on.

                          I am pretty sure it's not the failure of the taping method because my eyes cannot open up even voluntarily after I tape my eyes (unless I remove them it's quite impossible).

                          So what else could be the reason?

                          Inflammatory mediators being stagnant under a closed eyelid (due to pressure over the eyelids blocking the tear ducts possibly?) causing more inflammation?

                          Or is it demodex? (Don't wake up with bright red eyes every morning so can't really say if it's demodex or not)

                          I found a good article that might explain things but on a probable basis :

                          https://www.reviewofophthalmology.co...at-morning-eye

                          Could red eyes even after taping. Eyes shut be an aqueous deficiency? I wake up with red eyes and scored max on schirmer tests but I donít know how relevant schirmer tests are as everyone seems to say theyíre irrelevant now.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Topher3 View Post

                            Could red eyes even after taping. Eyes shut be an aqueous deficiency? I wake up with red eyes and scored max on schirmer tests but I donít know how relevant schirmer tests are as everyone seems to say theyíre irrelevant now.
                            Interestingly I have tried another method to arrest dessication of my eyes while sleeping other than taping. I cut two patches of a thin plastic sheet of the size of my orbits and used tapes to make a custom moisture chamber goggles around my orbits. I did it for the last two nights. It's a perfect seal as in the morning the inside of the chamber was totally foggy. So there's no way my eyes should have been reddish after bathing in a nice chamber of high humid conditions for about 8-9 hours. Yesterday my eyes felt rested and very comfortable in the morning upon removing the custom MCG. But today my eyes felt sore and fatigued even though the chamber was totally fogged up. On both occasions the inside of my eyelids were reddish even after a sleep of around 10 hours! So my eyes are NOT getting inflamed from dessication at night. Also my lower eyelids were slightly swollen and sore to touch today morning(and occasionally it's like that for the last few weeks ever since I put the fake TTO in my eyelids). So something is causing the inflammation from inside. It could be either demodex or bacteria. Or the inflammatory cycle is still persisting. I am on doxycycline 200mg daily for the last 5 days. Thinking of trying azithromycin ointment for a week to see if it makes any difference. My meibomian gland secretions have again gone down after a week after I stopped steroids. It cannot get worse you when you don't have a precise diagnosis and doctors are not helping either.

                            But something is exacerbating the inflammation INTERMITTENTLY and particularly at night. So my primary suspect is demodex because their activity is more pronounced at night. My secondary suspect is the inflammatory cycle amplifying at night due to closed eyelids and tear stagnation. Cannot use steroids because it will help demodex grow. Waiting for the tea tree oil which is stuck at customs.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Milo007 View Post

                              Interestingly I have tried another method to arrest dessication of my eyes while sleeping other than taping. I cut two patches of a thin plastic sheet of the size of my orbits and used tapes to make a custom moisture chamber goggles around my orbits. I did it for the last two nights. It's a perfect seal as in the morning the inside of the chamber was totally foggy. So there's no way my eyes should have been reddish after bathing in a nice chamber of high humid conditions for about 8-9 hours. Yesterday my eyes felt rested and very comfortable in the morning upon removing the custom MCG. But today my eyes felt sore and fatigued even though the chamber was totally fogged up. On both occasions the inside of my eyelids were reddish even after a sleep of around 10 hours! So my eyes are NOT getting inflamed from dessication at night. Also my lower eyelids were slightly swollen and sore to touch today morning(and occasionally it's like that for the last few weeks ever since I put the fake TTO in my eyelids). So something is causing the inflammation from inside. It could be either demodex or bacteria. Or the inflammatory cycle is still persisting. I am on doxycycline 200mg daily for the last 5 days. Thinking of trying azithromycin ointment for a week to see if it makes any difference. My meibomian gland secretions have again gone down after a week after I stopped steroids. It cannot get worse you when you don't have a precise diagnosis and doctors are not helping either.

                              But something is exacerbating the inflammation INTERMITTENTLY and particularly at night. So my primary suspect is demodex because their activity is more pronounced at night. My secondary suspect is the inflammatory cycle amplifying at night due to closed eyelids and tear stagnation. Cannot use steroids because it will help demodex grow. Waiting for the tea tree oil which is stuck at customs.
                              Interesting, do you get real itchy just below the eyelash lines particularly at night? Thatís a pretty good sign of demodex mites as they like to move around at night. Thatís still a shame to hear about the tea tree oil. The best thing about all of this is if it is demodex tea tree oil will kill it and once thatís done, most likely all youíd need is azithromycin, ipl and manual expression to try and get them flowing freely. Accompanied by warm compressions daily to assist with the thinning oils. Positive thoughts.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Topher3 View Post

                                Interesting, do you get real itchy just below the eyelash lines particularly at night?
                                Yes occasionally in the morning but after I have started eyelid scrubbing using baby shampoo twice a day the itching hasn't been pronounced. But I see collarettes at the base of almost all my eyelashes (both upper and lower eyelids).


                                Originally posted by Topher3 View Post

                                Thatís a pretty good sign of demodex mites as they like to move around at night. Thatís still a shame to hear about the tea tree oil. The best thing about all of this is if it is demodex tea tree oil will kill it and once thatís done, most likely all youíd need is azithromycin, ipl and manual expression to try and get them flowing freely. Accompanied by warm compressions daily to assist with the thinning oils. Positive thoughts.
                                I really hope so. I am so mentally upset that all I want is relief from this never ending disaster. My lipid secretions have gone drastically down again. There were heavy rains for the last two days so I am slightly comfortable (100% R. H.). But I am pretty sure I cannot keep my eyes open if the humidity drops in the next two days.

                                My lipids are perfectly thin and clear. The problem is sometimes nothing comes out when inflammation is high and sometimes they ooze out copiously when inflammation is low.

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