Hello from Sweden

[Zenab07]

Today China is suffering from Korana virus many people died with this virus.https://ckk.ai/7MTZgk

It capture at least 30 countries in the world. People safe their lives by covering mask at their faces.Here is the video to show how we protect ourselves with Korana virus.

[gilles]

I have only just read this whole topic today and came to some interesting insights. (funny how this forum might be the only one where not haven't been able to read the whole topic is not seen as lazy/unpolite, as reading with a dry eye condition is not that easy).

@hannahmaywils Meibum Ian Have you both checked if you can't let your drops be made in a (sterile) laboratory in your neighbourhood? My cyclosporine eyedrops are made via a sterile laboratory, which is part of the clinic where I am consulting an eye specialist. They even added isoptotears rather than oil (castor I think, which would then be exact to Restasis) because it might sting (the dry spots in the corner of my eyes can not always tolerate oil/ and in case of regular eyedrops: presevatives of other eyedrops i.e.)

Hajen13 I read that you wanted to know if there were other people with MGD without it being the result of LASIK or product/drug or something. Well, for me it is not the result of anything obvious (other than screen use and cycling without eye protection).
And, in contrary to you, I believe it might be one of the reasons (because a lot of factors might complement) as not fully and regularly blinking. This affects a lot of people these days on a regularly basis as a lot of us tend to be working over 8 hours a day behind a screen, and even more, when coming home.
Add to this factors like air conditioning, windy environments - e.g. when commuting, cycling without glasses - and a greasy skin and you might have enough factors resulting in MGD. This is where the chronic, vicious circle starts.

The greasy skin is something which might be very important, as a lot of people here might blame - as cause - accutane as the reason for their dry eyes - which might be the reason => permanently, shrinked glands. On the other hand, it might also point to the fact that a lot of us have a greasy skin, thus needing - or having needed - minocycline and accutane in order to help with acne for example. Acne being very similar to meibomian glands, and so you might have the same thing happening: blocked glands. But here, with the meibomian glands this blockage (with the bacteria that are formed like within normal pimples) results - as Milo007 already pointed out - in dry eyes, as the function of meibomian glands is to secrete oil to prevent tears from evaporating. So that's why I wanted to stress the fact that e.g. cyclosporine could help in this situation, as it can stop the inflammation and help the flow of oil again as the glands are less and less blocked and secreting better oil-quality as the old, blocked oil gets out.

Hajen13, do you by any chance have a greasy skin? And do you still do the eye massages after the warmth compress? As I am not sure this might be good / effective (e.g. if having a greasy skin) as I read on this forum it might do damage (collapse of the gland canals or something?) and maybe just soft full blinks while having heat on the eyelids - from e.g. heated eye compress (Bruder, Therapearl, BlephaSteam, etc.) for a long enough time and warm enough temperature - might make the oil come out bit by bit.

As for the resistance of bacteria to antibiotics, don't forget the food we eat. Cows for example, getting antibiotic injections, which will end in our food too one way or the other. Even our water that is filtered might not totally be filtered against antibiotics.
But don't forget: the medication as minocycline and doxycycline are mostly used for there anti-inflammatory effects, as scientific papers suggest, and all for the anti-bacterial effect.

Important: some if these are just my thought and findings.

[Hajen13]

Hi Hajen, have you tried cyclosporine eyedrops (0.05%) like Restasis or Ikervis, or lifitegrast ophthalmic solution eyedrops (e.g. Xiidra)? These eyedrops can also be made by a sterile laboraty, atleast that's how I get them.
And who told you about the glands dying off? My doctor told me that they don't die and are flexible of the stress they get because of the inflammation, certainly with people of young age.

Hi! I have not tried these products but i will keep them in mind, first i need to hear what the doctor says on monday but thank you! I was told the last time that 50% of my glands are basically dead and that is why its extremely important to "take care" of the 50 percent that are still there.

My first name is Anthony. I have been suffering from dry eyes for a number of years. I have been using Refresh mega 3 for dry eyes and Alaway for allergy. But so far, they can only offering me some relief when applying but very soon the symptoms come back. What should I do?

[gilles]

Thank you for the advice! So far i think eye drops only make things worse for me, no matter the type. Yes the speed of the gland loss is really something that can keep my mind busy when going to sleep.. The 16th of december i have a new appointment with the eyedoctor so hopefully some answers after that.

Hi Hajen, have you tried cyclosporine eyedrops (0.05%) like Restasis or Ikervis, or lifitegrast ophthalmic solution eyedrops (e.g. Xiidra)? These eyedrops can also be made by a sterile laboratory, atleast that's how I get them.
And who told you about the glands dying off? My doctor told me that they don't die and are flexible of the stress they get because of the inflammation, certainly with people of young age.

[Hajen13]

The treatment should be relatively similar for rosacea. I’m worried about the gland loss, you gotta protect those remaining glands. I think high dose doxycycline are 200mg a day, IPL, topicals steroids like lore max or alrex (if you have it), warm compress, or cold compress try both see which is best. Try any drops that don’t agitate your eye. This is my best advice and I genuinely hope you get better.

Thank you for the advice! So far i think eye drops only make things worse for me, no matter the type. Yes the speed of the gland loss is really something that can keep my mind busy when going to sleep.. The 16th of december i have a new appointment with the eyedoctor so hopefully some answers after that.

The treatment should be relatively similar for rosacea. I’m worried about the gland loss, you gotta protect those remaining glands. I think high dose doxycycline are 200mg a day, IPL, topicals steroids like lore max or alrex (if you have it), warm compress, or cold compress try both see which is best. Try any drops that don’t agitate your eye. This is my best advice and I genuinely hope you get better.

[Hajen13]

Hello again,

Things changed from one day to another i guess. Before i could make another appointment with the doctor i remembered that there
was a loose thread i had to take care of first.

When the doctor examined me last summer he said that he could not see the exact cause of the inflammation in the eyelids but
that he had some suspicions that it could be rosacea and he wanted med to take contact with a dermatologist.

I did that a couple of days a go, and got the confirmation that i actually have rosacea. So i guess that explains
some things. The rosacea is very light, i always have been thinking that my skin is just a little bit sensitive but never
i would have suspected rosacea.

Of course i will contact the doctor again but just 2 questions if anyone has the time and experience,


* Does this change the treatment of the eyes in some way? From what i understand,
not really.

* The skin clinic wanted me to make an appointment for a treatment in the clinic and also
recommended some products (some really cheap ones...). Is it worth trying
to "fight" against this disease? Could it get worse untreated?

/ Marcus

Hi again,

I would just like to make an update.

I went to the dryclinic in Oslo (thank you Alix on this forum) this summer and wow what a quality difference compared to the clinic
i was used to here in Stockholm.

Previously i have been hearing that i have all my meiboumian glands remaining. After the scan they doctor
(Sten Ræder) did in Oslo they could tell that is not really the case, they could see that i have lost
almost 50 percent of my meiboumian glands. I also have inflammations in the eyelids.

I was prescribed:

* 3 months doxycline
* Warm compress
* 10 days of different eye drops with cortisone (Monopex and Softacort)
* Thealoz duo gel 3 times a day (i quitted taking this gel after a while since i felt it made
things worse)



And the doctor also put punctual plugs into the tearducts.

------------------

I just recently finished the doxycline cure since i had to wait until after the summer to be able
to begin taking the pills since you should not combine them with sunny days.

Unfortunately i have not felt any improvement at all since my visit to the clinic.
Not really surprised since nothing i have done since my eyes got dry 6-7 years ago has
helped. My state is slowly but steady getting worse.

I can barely get through the working days in front of my computer. I am always working from home
instead of the office since it makes thing slightly easier (not having to face people and
the dry air in the office).

But this cant go on, i have came to a point were the work is no longer of importance. I have
to get away from the screen at any prize as it is making my condition worse. I am also
scared of that it contributes to an even faster gland loss.

7 years of serious reduced life quality. I am now 28 years old.... Life is
ticking on but its not possible to participate.

When are the magic eyedrops that will solve all problems finally going to be on the market?
Are we going to find them at any dryeye clinic? I guess not since it would probably ruin there
business.

I am going to book a new time at the clinic in Olso and see what i gives me though since
i have a big trust in the knowledge of the doctor (Sten).

Hey there read your story... I making great progress DM me if you need some tips.

[Hajen13]

Thank you i will! And thanks again for recommending the clinic so that i could finaly see a doctor who really knows what he is talking about.

[Alix]

Hi good to hear you made it to the Oslo clinic and you finally got some answers.
Sorry that you have not seen any improvement...you just need to carry on trying different things, what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another.
Do keep us updated and let us know what the doctor says on your next visit.
Good luck!

[Hajen13]

Hi again,

I would just like to make an update.

I went to the dryclinic in Oslo (thank you Alix on this forum) this summer and wow what a quality difference compared to the clinic
i was used to here in Stockholm.

Previously i have been hearing that i have all my meiboumian glands remaining. After the scan they doctor
(Sten Ræder) did in Oslo they could tell that is not really the case, they could see that i have lost
almost 50 percent of my meiboumian glands. I also have inflammations in the eyelids.

I was prescribed:

* 3 months doxycline
* Warm compress
* 10 days of different eye drops with cortisone (Monopex and Softacort)
* Thealoz duo gel 3 times a day (i quitted taking this gel after a while since i felt it made
things worse)



And the doctor also put punctual plugs into the tearducts.

------------------

I just recently finished the doxycline cure since i had to wait until after the summer to be able
to begin taking the pills since you should not combine them with sunny days.

Unfortunately i have not felt any improvement at all since my visit to the clinic.
Not really surprised since nothing i have done since my eyes got dry 6-7 years ago has
helped. My state is slowly but steady getting worse.

I can barely get through the working days in front of my computer. I am always working from home
instead of the office since it makes thing slightly easier (not having to face people and
the dry air in the office).

But this cant go on, i have came to a point were the work is no longer of importance. I have
to get away from the screen at any prize as it is making my condition worse. I am also
scared of that it contributes to an even faster gland loss.

7 years of serious reduced life quality. I am now 28 years old.... Life is
ticking on but its not possible to participate.

When are the magic eyedrops that will solve all problems finally going to be on the market?
Are we going to find them at any dryeye clinic? I guess not since it would probably ruin there
business.

I am going to book a new time at the clinic in Olso and see what i gives me though since
i have a big trust in the knowledge of the doctor (Sten).

[Topher3]

[QUOTE=Milo007;n223493



I agree. And not to mention the compromise in our natural immunity thanks to all the artificial chemicals we are subjected to every day like pesticides in vegetables and fruits, telfon from non stick cookware, preservatives in food, increased levels of toxic gases in the atmosphere due to pollution and so on. All of these are provoking some kind of immune response in our body in some way and people are getting auto immune diseases as unbelievably common occurrences these days. Mankind is setting up its own coffin nicely. [/QUOTE]

Love this, you’re absolutely right. Humans never learn until it’s too late, too much greed.

[Milo007]

You’re right, it’s the bacteria that causes the meibum to solidify. I believe certain people have more of certain bacteria’s within the body. And that people with this predisposition allows the opportunity for MGD to be more prevelant in these people.

Also the ****ing demodex mites. They carry bacteria (specially bacillus oleronius) inside their intestines and when they die their body explodes releasing the pathogens. The toxic wastes produced by the bacteria invokes a high immune response. So these mites have been hired by the bacteria to act as Trojan horses as protection against our immunity.

whether you take anti biotics or not is irrelevant, the problem is everyone else that abuses them forces the bacteria in our WORLD to evolve to be able to still exist against our technology that is trying to eradicate it. And when someone comes in contact with certain bacteria’s that have evolved, and their genes don’t allow the body to kill them (bacterias) effectively, they’re more susceptible to inflammation and solidifying oils. And people with certain bacteria’s on their body (like you said with acne)and certain conditions such as psoriasis, seborrheic dermatitis, eczema etc.... their body struggles to fight it off so in turn they get these diseases. Same with MGD I believe.
i believe that people body’s cannot handle certain strands of bacteria make the chance of MGD to skyrocket throughout that persons lifetime whether it’s from immune response or overgrowth. Blinking is only a part of it, you need to be hit from multiple sides to activate the shit storm.

I agree. And not to mention the compromise in our natural immunity thanks to all the artificial chemicals we are subjected to every day like pesticides in vegetables and fruits, telfon from non stick cookware, preservatives in food, increased levels of toxic gases in the atmosphere due to pollution and so on. All of these are provoking some kind of immune response in our body in some way and people are getting auto immune diseases as unbelievably common occurrences these days. Mankind is setting up its own coffin nicely.

[Topher3]

You are partially correct when you say that the meibomian glands cannot get blocked due to partial or incomplete blinking. I believe that "prolonged" partial blinking can cause blockage of the glands. It is the habit of partial blinking over years that results in the blockage of the glands. When one blinks partially most of the time the meibum inside the glands do not get expressed at the rate at which it is being synthesized. So there is either a stagnation or a reduced rate of flow of meibum within the central duct of the glands. Now stagnation doesn't cause the blockage itself. It's the bacteria naturally residing inside our meibomian glands that utilizes this opportunity and causes the conversion of the lipids to long chain fatty acids which have elevated melting temperatures and hence they solidify at the normal temperature of the ocular surface. Demodex might also cause terminal duct obstruction inducing hyperkeratinization which again causes statis of the meibum and the bacteria join the party.

So it's pretty much similar to acne vulgaris when hyperkeratinization within the sebaceous glands cause an obstruction and P. Acnes causes an inflammatory response by releasing toxic wastes inside the blocked gland. In the case of meibomian glands the stagnation of the meibum provides time for the bacteria to facilitate the conversion of the lipids. If the flow of meibum was faster due to evenly spaced complete blinks then the lipids would have continuously moved out of the glands before the conversion could take place.

This is just one way of developing MGD. Mind it there could be at least dozens of other ways the meibomian glands can be adversely affected. All end up causing the glands to malfunction which is common.

I don't think evolved bacteria is the cause of MGD since if that was the case I should not have developed it. I didn't take antibiotics for a decade maybe before I got this. I am very reluctant to take antibiotics unless absolutely necessary. Also I have seen plenty of people who abuse antibiotics like regular sleeping pills and they don't have MGD.

The inflammation kicks in once the LLT drops down due to either partial or complete blockage of the glands or the glands not secreting enough lipids. Chronic inflammation amplifies the cycle of MGD and damages the glands further slowly and steadily until you have most of the glands malfunctioning.

You’re right, it’s the bacteria that causes the meibum to solidify. I believe certain people have more of certain bacteria’s within the body. And that people with this predisposition allows the opportunity for MGD to be more prevelant in these people.

whether you take anti biotics or not is irrelevant, the problem is everyone else that abuses them forces the bacteria in our WORLD to evolve to be able to still exist against our technology that is trying to eradicate it. And when someone comes in contact with certain bacteria’s that have evolved, and their genes don’t allow the body to kill them (bacterias) effectively, they’re more susceptible to inflammation and solidifying oils. And people with certain bacteria’s on their body (like you said with acne)and certain conditions such as psoriasis, seborrheic dermatitis, eczema etc.... their body struggles to fight it off so in turn they get these diseases. Same with MGD I believe.
i believe that people body’s cannot handle certain strands of bacteria make the chance of MGD to skyrocket throughout that persons lifetime whether it’s from immune response or overgrowth. Blinking is only a part of it, you need to be hit from multiple sides to activate the shit storm.