Dry eye and TMJ (/TMD)

[Stanza]

Hello,
I haven't been on for a while and I don't necessarily have a cure but it was time to share something. Let me first say that I’m not writing this to give anyone with any slight issue with jaw pain/TMJ the wrong idea, let me say it now that I’ve had this chronically – I don’t at all grind my teeth at night or have just a little bit of clicking, it’s a whole other story as I will type. Still, I want to write this as the connection between dry eye and TMJ is not yet widely documented.

I have had dry eye issues since around 2005. Around the same time I had problem with pain in my face, which after some mis-diagnoses of sinus trouble was thought to be two overgrown wisdom teeth (this happens when wisdom teeth have no matching opposite). The teeth were removed and at that point my facial pain actually increased. After more diagnosis issues I was diagnosed with a dislocated jaw. By now this is 2007 and I moved country.

In my new country I had treatment for my disclocated jaw. One year later I realized it had made me worse, much worse, in a way that all doctors refused to accept my new symptoms were linked to my jaw. Since then I’ve been on a roller coaster of going to physio and chiropractic treatments whilst doctors have failed to diagnose me with anything. I had multiple tests and in the asked them to just stop because I was tired of telling them I had TMJ. This is little known in Europe and they wouldn't hear it.

Luckily for me, I was blessed that the one expert on this in the country I live in is a couple of kilometres away and after finding him (myself) I finally feel I will get my life back. What happened in me is that inbalances in my jaw have caused a criss-cross of inbalances throughout my body, I have one shoulder that slopes very severely and I have all kinds of pain. I do have jaw clicking and jaw/face pain. I also have neck pain, arm pain – some of it muscular, some of it feels more like the nerves, I have numb fingers and pain in my wrists. I do not have RSI but it has been mistaken for this. Painkillers do not work on the pain, I think because it has covered to many parts of my body. I’ve had days where the pain is so bad I don’t know what to do. I have had issues with concentration and headaches on a daily basis that at times that feel like they will never end and something I describe as a ‘fog’ that has clouded my thoughts and made it hard for me to multi-task over the last year (the doctor I found – a dentist/muscular-skeletal expert says that happens because the system is overloaded).

Now that I’m being treated correctly, I’m on a long path but already the tiny, small differences mean I do not have a headache every day and I have a clearer mind.

So my eyes – what happened there? Well, I was told many times by short-tempered eye doctors that there was nothing wrong with them. They hurt too. Some days it’s worse than others. Like many the change of seasons can be the worst time but nothing seems to really stop it. The dryness, the gritty feeling, sometimes the menthol feeling. Still, nothing is visible to anyone looking at them.

As I’ve started my TMJ treatment it has lessened just enough to be significant. Just enough for me to feel the connection. Just enough that my eyes don’t feel as tired anymore either and them muscles around them feel different. I still have dry eyes but it has changed and I am hopeful for this to continue with my other treatment.

Again, I have TMJ quite chronically, I have had days where it’s been a struggle, the duration of my problems even caused me to have to stop ‘talking about it’ as people don’t understand and are not patient after some time, it became something I had to deal with alone, but all along I kept trying to help myself get out of it. If you are ever in that place, just remember to keep trying to help yourself, you owe yourself that much, and it's all you can do when others are doubting around you.

I am posting this in case it helps someone else one day. I'll post updates on how it goes.
S

[presh]

I am happy you found your cause and some releif! May I ask what kind of therapy you are doing for your TMJ???

[kitty]

I have severe TMJ problems that apparently started when I was a teenager. I had no jaw pain but massive migraines and neck pains for 25 years before I was diagnosed about 5 years ago. At the time of diagnosis and start of treatment the Jaw pain hit. My diagnosis of DES came within a few months of the diagnosis of TMJ. I have often thought the two could be related. I've been in active treatment for the TMJ for 5 years with no appreciable impact on the DES, at least not yet. I believe I read somewhere that the nerve brnaches responsible for lacrimation are connected to the trigeminal nerve which is often involved in TMD. My specialist says it could be another year or more before my TMJ symptoms quiet down entirely, if they ever will. I'm hoping for some relief of the DES then.

[Stanza]

Hi there,

Presh - I'm wearing a splint at night (I wear it also at home if I'm alone in the day! (as recommended but this isn't 100% needed)) and going to a physio (who is around an hour a way) that the dentist I found works with very closely and is trained in this. I also do a lot of things for myself such as going to the gym and trying to build my muscles through exercises - this can feel like an uphill struggle but it's part of being part of your treatment. I've worked a lot on posture and core muscles which are damaged through the effects of TMJ throughout the body. The fact I do this has reduced how much physio I need as she can see my own progress.

I believe you have to find the right person to treat you because I've read enough TMJ stories to know if you don't it doesn't work. The first dentist I saw, some years back wanted me to wear a full-time splint then have my teeth fully recrowned and I just didn't trust him, he was too quick and didn't seem to think about the rest of the body. I do 100% believe you need someone that gets the impact on the whole body which is what I am blessed to have now.

It's also a long-term recovery - per Kitty's story. I've been told the damage to my jaw joints will take 2 years to recover and 1 year to show real changes. It will take some time to see if my DES will fully go or just partially. Currently I am just so happy for the slight improvements, the grit & menthol sensations for example have been less.

Kitty - I saw some posts by you on here, seems you've had a long struggle with this too, I do hope that you feel some difference in a year. I find with the splint treatment after each adjustment there are some movements in where the pain effects me most (although each day brings a different pain area for some reason too!) So I too do believe that there is something with the pressure on the trigeminal nerve. I see it as the varying pressure influences various pain areas. As an example: Before my current treatment began (January) I started getting optical migraines - which really scared me as I was having them very regularly in the end - especially just when I woke up, but I got my retinas checked out and all was ok (again that doctor couldn't see anything wrong from a DES view!). When I started my treatment the optical migraines were one of the first things to 'get worse' and when my splint was changed they started to lessen.

I've also always had the problem that people can't see anything wrong with my eyes but I have had all the pain and symptoms....I'm one of 'those' that just didn't get a diagnosis. I even tried cleaning my eyes as if I had blepharitis at some point but lid scrubs actually make me worse...

We have to hang in there and hope. Keep me posted on how it goes for you? If you're like me with no other diagnosis for your DES there should be some hope
S.

[kitty]

Stanza, interesting you should mention ocular migraines. I was having them quite a bit before I started treating with my current TMJ specialist. Since I got my new splint they have been much less. In fact, come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I had one!

[Stanza]

See, one step in the right direction !! Have to say I was totally freaked out by the ocular migraines to start with.

[presh]

Well I am willing to try anything and everything. Got a splint made by my dentist who states I have TMJ in both joints. Will begin wearing it and see what happens!

[Another Sarah]

I'm really interested in this thread, as I have TMJ disorder, migraines and dry eye. At any one point I have lots of pain in my face/head, due to the interaction between all three. I've had a dental splint for two years now, and am about to be fitted for another, in the hope that it works better. I also do jaw daily exercises. However, I've been told that I'm unlikely to improve a great deal, as one of my jaw joints is less developed than the other (which has obviously always been the case).

I think TMJ disorder is going to be one of those things that so much more will become known about within the next 20 or 30 years, but at the moment, it's really not an area of much expertise.

Am really happy to be able to share experiences, and very interested in any link with dry eye.

[Stanza]

Presh - good luck, you should try to get some physio too

Sarah - wow that sounds like a lot of overlapping points, I have found my headaches have reduced something like 80% since the start of my treatment, it could be your migraines are linked to this too. I'm sorry that they don't think things will advance very much I in how your jaws have developed, I hope they can come up with something to help you compensate the two sides.

My take on things is that I probably always had a susceptibility to DES but that it has been the overlapping causes that caused the combined conflict which escalated it, so whilst I don't think I'll ever be without DES I do think it has been made worse by everything coinciding. I've been told my jaw cartilage is damaged but can recover but will take 2 years, apparently it's about the only cartilage in the body that can regenerate but only if it hasn't gone completely.

I'd love to hear how you guys get on during this year.

[Stanza]

A small update. I'm probably half way through my TMJ treatment. I am now some days not in chronic pain just as my jaw and joints are improving, I do now also have days where my eyes are bearable. Less scratching/irritating feeling, much less 'menthol' effect. I still have those days but far fewer.

I can now wear soft contact lenses for about 4 hours with no adverse affects after (if I use drops frequently).

In summary: still have large swings from good - to - bad days but things are still going slowing in a positive direction.

[Stanza]

Update. So I'm over a year into my treatment now. It started January 2011.
My next appointment with TMJ specialist is end of August. He says that my muscles are now in good shape and it's just the joints that now have to follow. He hopes the next appointment will be the one that shows I'm at the final stage of treatment.

So onto the eyes.... per before, I am stlil noting a connection. I have significantly less issues with my eyes now that I'm at this stage of the treatment than I did when I started. I rarely now have eyelid irritation to the extent I had it in the past - which was pretty bad. I used to feel like there was something rubbing on one of my eyelids the whole day and I couldn't tolerate lenses for long. I still can't wear lenses for an extended period of time but I can now wear them for a whole evening without constantly wanting to take them out.

I still use eye drops every day, this is still essential, but my situation is much better than when i started my treatment. There is still some way for me to go and I will keep hope my symptoms will continue to improve. I still have some tissue inflamation in my face because my joints are not yet fully fixed, so there is potentially stlil some irritation there to heal further.

For anyone who one day reads my posts and has TMJ can I just remind you that you have to be patient with your treatment. And yes the splint can make you feel worse before it gets better. I read so many stories of people finding their splint gives them pain and they just give up. If you have a sense that you have the right practitioner working with you, be patient and don't give up instantly. Mine was up front that this would take 2 years. He has explained everything and he considers my whole body in the treatment. I have always known he was the right person after searching long and hard (5 years) for help. So find the right person, and really give it time.

I will update again at some point.

[kitty]

I started seeing a neuromuscular dentist for my TMJ about 6 weeks ago. I have been using the Tens and a new appliance and my TMJ symptoms are getting better, finally. The most interesting thing happened today. While on the Tens, my left eye started watering. It was producing real tears, not the reflex tearing that I have been accustomed to. It was only the left eye. That is the eye that still has one plug in it. I'm thinking there must be a connection between the muscular relaxation induced by the Tens, or perhaps the nerve stimulation, that produced the extra tears. At any rate, within an hour or so after the treatment my left eye was back to its old self. Wish I could wear that Tens 24 x 7.

[Stanza]

That's interesting Kitty and good news. It's good your nerves are still working under the right conditions. Sounds like a positive discovery.

[Jenn1]

Hi all,

Great thread. I have been suffering from a popping jaw that when i yawn too wide and i close my mouth i get the pop feeling. I also noticed that my smile was slightly wonky in pics and went to the dentist and hes sent me to the facial surgeon, but i cancelled in case they want to do an op, which is likely and i really dont want my eyes to get any worse since my jaw is slightly tilted and i was thinking maybe its affecting my eyes too in some way? Anyway, I shall discuss this with my eye doc and likely make an appointment again with the face surgeon to see what he thinks also.

I forgot to mention that I am worried about any op for fear of nerve damage or worsening my eyes as jaw realignment and that can move the facial structures and affect the eyes too.

[Stanza]

There's not much cited online about the correlation between the two so you may find your practitioners sceptical. If you had both jaw and eye issues starting around same time, or eye after jaw, then I guess the correlate potential might be higher.

good luck and keep us posted.