Dry eye and TMJ (/TMD)

[Ruvaida]

I once read the arthritis and DES are co-related. And TMJ is somehow resembles arthritis in a way or the other.

TJM, gastric reflux, dry eyes, all these seem somehow related, not medically but it is seen by some people.
And some women have these flare up before or during period cycles.

[Stanza]

I guess that might be with the complexity of the nerves in the face.

There's an interesting group on Facebook for anyone that is on there and has TMJ. It's called TMJ Worldwide. Lots of very interesting info is posted on there by an expert in the field.

[Stanza]

I'm continuing to experience much better times with my eyes now I'm nearing the end phase of my TMJ treatment. I am so thankful for this. I remember the really bad times and I hope that if anyone finds this post one day they will find some hope if this is what is happening with them. The bad times included doctors telling me my eyes were ok and never being able to get a diagnosis. It was only when I saw the progress with my wider physical issues I was able to connect the dots. Whatever your issues are, do hang in there and keep looking, trying and searching. It took me 5 years to find the right professional to help my TMJ and in that time, other than the issues with my eyes, I had severe pain on many fronts and faced a number of doctors that would not connect my jaw to my issues.

I had floaters as well as a multitude of other symptoms with my dry eye. The floaters have also improved tremendously during the last year and I haven't had any occular migraines now for some time. I'm just adding a link that were useful to me during this time on the topic of floaters and connecting this to my wider physical issues.

http://www.ctds.info/floater.html

[Stanza]

Wanted to post an update. My TMJ treatment was to come to an end this month, however the specialist treating me says there has been a recent break down of the bone in the joint and I will need two more years of treatment to allow this to heal before the final stage.

Needless to say, so far this hasn't impacted the progress with my eyes. I'm still doing really well now on this front. I still use drops, particularly at night, but much less in the day time. As before change of seasons and some days I need drops more but I no longer have the irritation and feeling of grit in my eye, bumps on my eyelids as I did before. I'm very grateful for my progress. I remember where I have come from.

[Danny_]

Hello,
I haven't been on for a while and I don't necessarily have a cure but it was time to share something. Let me first say that I’m not writing this to give anyone with any slight issue with jaw pain/TMJ the wrong idea, let me say it now that I’ve had this chronically – I don’t at all grind my teeth at night or have just a little bit of clicking, it’s a whole other story as I will type. Still, I want to write this as the connection between dry eye and TMJ is not yet widely documented.

I have had dry eye issues since around 2005. Around the same time I had problem with pain in my face, which after some mis-diagnoses of sinus trouble was thought to be two overgrown wisdom teeth (this happens when wisdom teeth have no matching opposite). The teeth were removed and at that point my facial pain actually increased. After more diagnosis issues I was diagnosed with a dislocated jaw. By now this is 2007 and I moved country.

In my new country I had treatment for my disclocated jaw. One year later I realized it had made me worse, much worse, in a way that all doctors refused to accept my new symptoms were linked to my jaw. Since then I’ve been on a roller coaster of going to physio and chiropractic treatments whilst doctors have failed to diagnose me with anything. I had multiple tests and in the asked them to just stop because I was tired of telling them I had TMJ. This is little known in Europe and they wouldn't hear it.

Luckily for me, I was blessed that the one expert on this in the country I live in is a couple of kilometres away and after finding him (myself) I finally feel I will get my life back. What happened in me is that inbalances in my jaw have caused a criss-cross of inbalances throughout my body, I have one shoulder that slopes very severely and I have all kinds of pain. I do have jaw clicking and jaw/face pain. I also have neck pain, arm pain – some of it muscular, some of it feels more like the nerves, I have numb fingers and pain in my wrists. I do not have RSI but it has been mistaken for this. Painkillers do not work on the pain, I think because it has covered to many parts of my body. I’ve had days where the pain is so bad I don’t know what to do. I have had issues with concentration and headaches on a daily basis that at times that feel like they will never end and something I describe as a ‘fog’ that has clouded my thoughts and made it hard for me to multi-task over the last year (the doctor I found – a dentist/muscular-skeletal expert says that happens because the system is overloaded).

Now that I’m being treated correctly, I’m on a long path but already the tiny, small differences mean I do not have a headache every day and I have a clearer mind.

So my eyes – what happened there? Well, I was told many times by short-tempered eye doctors that there was nothing wrong with them. They hurt too. Some days it’s worse than others. Like many the change of seasons can be the worst time but nothing seems to really stop it. The dryness, the gritty feeling, sometimes the menthol feeling. Still, nothing is visible to anyone looking at them.

As I’ve started my TMJ treatment it has lessened just enough to be significant. Just enough for me to feel the connection. Just enough that my eyes don’t feel as tired anymore either and them muscles around them feel different. I still have dry eyes but it has changed and I am hopeful for this to continue with my other treatment.

Again, I have TMJ quite chronically, I have had days where it’s been a struggle, the duration of my problems even caused me to have to stop ‘talking about it’ as people don’t understand and are not patient after some time, it became something I had to deal with alone, but all along I kept trying to help myself get out of it. If you are ever in that place, just remember to keep trying to help yourself, you owe yourself that much, and it's all you can do when others are doubting around you.

I am posting this in case it helps someone else one day. I'll post updates on how it goes.
S

Wow...reads almost like a copy of my life. It sounds like you have TMJ worse than me but mine is chronic too. I am convinced of the connection between it and dry eyes. My own personal theory is that I feel eye pain because the muscles around the idea are not relaxed and that causes them to be over-worked and tired. I've tried almost everything and had a bit of success but I still live with pain every day from the moment I wake up. I feel bad for you since you are in the same position. Good luck. Thanks for sharing your story and congrats on the improvement.

[Stanza]

Am really glad you wrote that, Danny, there is so little documented on the connection so I hope this thread will give some hope at some point. Yes, my eyes are doing better with my treatment still, even with my setback last month. And I'm very thankful. I use drops and have some irritation and can't wear contacts very long but this is a long way from where I started and I see where I am now as amazing. I hope you will have some improvement. I feel bad for you also as it's quite a combination to deal with but I hope it will improve for you also. I wonder if it's the muscles? I like your theory. I think the nerves and muscles are so irritated that it must be from that....

[Cleaver245]

Hello all,

Many of the symptoms described in this thread sound eerily similar to what I've had over the past 10 years. I'm 27 now, and my dry eye symptoms have been getting progressively worse, as well as my neck and back problems since I was in high school. Since then I have been to probably 10+ opthamologist's, multiple orthodontists, and many many doctors, the entire time just searching for some kind of answer. Unfortunately the only answer I've received is that there's nothing wrong with me... Very very frustrating, and depressing.

It all started around when I got my braces, and had my molars removed, this is when I first noticed my eye issues. It started out as just being a slight annoyance, I remember I would avoid walking through the hallways at school, because the florescent lights and the air conditioners would irritate my eyes. Over time this got worse, I started noticing floaters, it started to feel like there was dirt in my eyes, and my eyes would start to well up in tears, even if I was just sitting at home. The worst has been the constant menthol feeling that was mentioned above, and the photophobia - this bothers me all day, every day, and is most definitely the worse of the symptoms. This irritation generally leads to reflex tearing, which gives my eyes a glassy/fisheyed look all the time. This is really difficult to deal with in social situations, because my eyes are always on the verge of tearing, and it makes it impossible to have a conversation when I'm distracted by this. This alone has turned me into a hermit, I always go out of my way these days to avoid any kind of social interaction.

I wear glasses to help combat environmental factors such as wind, and air conditioning, and they do help a little bit with that. I also wear gunnars while I'm on the computer to help with eye strain, although I'm not sure if they're really doing much. I keep a humidifier on during the day, and I think that does make my eyes feel a little more comfortable.

The only treatment that has ever given me any kind of improvement is heat. If I take a super heated pad, and place it on my eyes for 20 minutes, I get temporary relief for about 10 minutes afterwards... my eyes feel somewhat normal. I also tried a tanning bed once as well (with eye protection obviously), and that gave me immediate relief as well. I wonder if this is reducing inflammation in the muscles around my eyes, which may some how be relieving the dry eye.

These are other treatments I've tried, none of which have really worked.
Restasis
every eye drop under the sun
Salmon oil
Flax seed oil,
Primrose oil,
Astaxanthin,
HyrdroEyes,
BioTears,
Gluten free diet,
Paleo diet

As mentioned above, I also have a lot of joint pain. I get pain in the middle of my back, in my shoulder blades, and in my neck. I also get tension in my face, around my eyes and in my jaw. I thought this was due to TMJ, but after a seeing an orthodontist, he told me that my jaw was fine, so I discarded that possibility. I'm curious if he may have got this diagnosis wrong though, after reading the comments above.

[Stanza]

I had all that joint pain my treatment went well once I had the right dentist (muscular skelotal I believe he describes himself) so it might be worth keeping on the path of finding someone that can really help you. I know there is a group on FB called TMJ worldwide, where I saw they had posted a lot of theory that seemed like how the person I was treated by thought so it is worth looking on there maybe.

My specialist said there was little documented on the connection to dry eye but he has heard so many weird things over the years he thinks anything is possible. Of course, TMJ is itself hard enough to diagnose.... I do still use drops but I can now wear lenses each day. None of the traditional DES treatments helped me at all, not even heat. And Eye Doctors told me there was nothing wrong with my eyes even though they were red, itchy, scratchy, hurt like freaking hell.

Keep looking for someone to help and remember it takes months for anything to take effect, the first year of treatment was a rollercoaster for me. Good luck.

[Stanza]

Hi, so I thought to post a little update. I was discharged from my TMJ specialist in April last year, I have only been back for check ups. Currently he thinks I will have to wear the splint the rest of my life but I hope this will change.

Progress on my eyes? Well I use the drops a whole lot less, I do use them but not as much as I used to, I notice it if I do not use them a whole day. I can wear contacts a whole day now!!! I try not to wear them all daylight hours still, but if I have to, I can!!! It is unbelievable really. I am also able to train at the gym in ways I could not before with the muscle break down, I now do strength training 6 days a week.

[cathy8889]

Hi stanza, this thread really interests me, I've been having a dull ache in my right jaw below bottom teeth that wraps round my ear to right part of forehead. I've had swollen lymph node for 7 months and also earache, when I was researching today I came across tmj and then saw this thread. Could you tell me more about your symptoms please? I have most trouble with my right eye and don't know whether it is linked. I had pains in my neck too earlier in year but had an MRI scan on it and it came back ok.

Many thanks

Cath

[Stanza]

All my symptoms are written throughout this thread, I had everything that relates to TMJ. My advice is that you go see a TMJ specialist, it does sound like you could have it but only they can tell, you have to find a good one, it is like eye docs, there are bad ones. I am glad you found my thread and lots of luck to you!!

[cathy8889]

Hi stanza. Thank you, I'm glad you finally got diagnosed properly, I know exactly what you mean about people losing patience with you as they just don't understand.

Best wishes to you

Cath

[CharlieGreenEyes]

Hi Stanza,

I have a lot of TMJ symptoms. Did you see a dentist first or did you got to your GP? I need to see a dentist anyway because I know I've been grinding my teeth (and tongue thrusting). I'm hoping I might get the TMJ investigated by the dentist but don't know if this is something I need to see a GP about instead.

Btw, it's good to hear you can wear contacts now. I'm hoping I will be able to do the same at some point.

[Stanza]

I just want to write an update in general that I wrote this post with detail about my experience so anyone else with the same would feel like, ok I am not going crazy. I do not think everyone with a jaw issue will have what I had, but I think some could. I hope it helps you all. Before responding with questions, do go through all the posts because most of the info I have is in there, I don't really have anything extra I am afraid. TMJ is a whole other ball game, so if you think you have it, go and research it and start on that forum as well because it is another thing and you have to research it in accordance with yourselves. I wish you all luck with it.

[Stanza]

Charlie, I had to go to a private specialist as TMJ is not acknowledged where I live. I spent years battling TMJ and the dry eye became a separate thing in my mind because no one was accepting that I had TMJ - until the state doctors gave up and I got brave enough to follow my instinct. It is in my earlier posts anyway. I can only say you have to follow your instinct. Fight for what you need in treatment, whatever it is. Good luck.