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**Aaron77** · 25-Sep-2009, 11:00

I tried Pataday too but did'nt find it did much for me. Maybe it needs to be taken for more then 3 days or so to make a difference? It's said to be a mast cell stabilizer, whatever that means?

**dryeyes4ever** · 25-Sep-2009, 11:28

Permanent make-up

Just an FYI - I had eyeliner "tattooed" earlier this year & I love it! I specifically did on the lower lids because using artificial tears all the time would wash my eyeliner away. I've had a wonderful experience w/it. I found the woman on-line after researching a few days. She's also done my eyebrows which are probably my favorite & I go back in a few weeks for her to go over my lips again which she did 6 weeks ago.

She's based in New Jersey.

Just thought I'd throw that out there!

**calli66** · 25-Sep-2009, 16:09

Can you post of picture of the lid liner so we could see what it looks like?

Thanks!

C

**Scout** · 25-Sep-2009, 16:48

LasikLady,

If your problem is allergies, I am really surprised your doctor recommended permanent eyeliner. I ran across this study a few months ago while I was doing my usual dryeyezone search through PubMed to find ocular allergy studies.

It sounds extremely difficult to treat if you happen to have an allergic reaction to the dye, which is permanently injected into your skin near your eyes. This study certainly gave me pause since I am allergic to what seems like practically everything that comes in contact with my eyes or the skin near my eyes.

Everyone is different, of course, and not everyone is as allergy prone as I am. But still . . .

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

Ophthal Plast Reconstr Surg. 2006 Jan-Feb;22(1):48-51.

Adverse reactions to permanent eyeliner tattoo.

Vagefi MR, Dragan L, Hughes SM, Klippenstein KA, Seiff SR, Woog JJ.
Ophthalmic Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, Department of Ophthalmology, University of California, San Francisco, 94110, USA.

PURPOSE: To report the potential for serious adverse reactions associated with permanent eyeliner tattoos.

METHODS: An observational case series was conducted on 4 patients who presented with inflammatory eyelid reactions after receiving permanent eyeliner tattoo.

RESULTS: Clinically, the tattoo-associated lesions were typically firm, raised masses underlying the areas of pigmentation. Histopathologic analysis of tissue from all 4 patients demonstrated a granulomatous inflammatory response with negative cultures for any organisms. Treatment approaches varied between a combination of topical steroid creams, local steroid injections, local resection, intramuscular steroid injection, and systemic oral steroids. These treatments were successful in all 4 cases.

CONCLUSIONS: An allergic granulomatous reaction is one of the adverse reactions seen after permanent eyeliner tattoo. Treatment can be challenging and may ultimately require excision of tattoo pigment to remove the inciting factor. Systemic steroids may aid in controlling the inflammation associated with reaction to the tattoo pigment.

PMID: 16418666 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

**LasikLady** · 25-Sep-2009, 18:50

Yeah, it surprised me too. I will never take another risk again and do anything that is not totally medically necessary with my eyes or my body in general. I am done rolling the dice. My lasik was my first and last elective surgery or procedure.

I don't understand how he could say I have allergies without testing me for any. And I still don't understand what "mushy" means. His comment about not caring how my eyes feel totally alienated me and so I didn't engage any further discussion with him. I just sat silent until I could leave.

Needless to say I won't be going back to him again.

LL

**Lucy** · 25-Sep-2009, 21:46

LasikLady, that doctor sounds like a loon. Loose him fast. I can't believe some of the stuff we have to put up with. (Telling you that you'll have baggy eyelids later in life. How in the heck does he know?)

**irish eyes** · 26-Sep-2009, 01:01

Lasiklady

Perhaps `mushy' is an odd word to use but he might have meant the lids were soft & pulpy and easily yield to any kind of pressure - mine are like that.

But the rest of what he said.....!

`.....I don't care what your eyes may feel like, your corneas look beautiful and that is all I care about .....'

Doctors need a degree of empathy with patients -we are not machines.

Hippocrates, father of western medicine, said in the 4th century BC:

`the patient, though conscious that his condition is perilous, may recover his health simply through his contentment with the goodness of the physician...'

**LasikLady** · 28-Sep-2009, 13:34

What would make someone's eyes "soft and pulpy" would it be allergies? Or maybe just genetics?

**Sammy B.** · 28-Sep-2009, 14:10

Double-plugging?

LL,

I wonder if just being double-plugged would lead this doctor to believe you had extra "mushiness" in your lids? Did he know about the plugs?

And mushiness doesn't seem like anything to be too concerned about. So don't lose your mind wondering about it!!

- Rose

**irish eyes** · 29-Sep-2009, 11:24

Lasiklady

I suppose allergies are one reason for swelling in and around the eyes. Hayfever can do it.

For many, the contributing factor is protruding fat in the lower eyelid area, which is unrelated to any specific medical problem.

I had allergy testing several years ago and nothing unusual came back in the analysis. If sneezing was an olympic event, I could represent the country. I can't pin the sneezing down to anything significant - it can just start out of the blue.

My consultant thinks that my eyes have become more & more sensitive over the years and that accounts for the swelling. I suffer with blepharitis also and that can cause eyelids to thicken.

**dianat** · 29-Sep-2009, 12:51

"Mushy" is a third grade word. And tattooing your eyes is a dangerous business. Our precious meibomian glands are in jeopardy with such a procedure. Unless your doc has some redeeming quality, LL, I'd lose him.

Dryeyes4ever...I am so happy your tattoo results were good. I wish I could do it, but I never would. I hate my washed-out look.

Dianat

**Scout** · 30-Sep-2009, 07:50

"Mushy" is definitely a third grade word but it does seem to reflect how some doctors look at those of us with LASIK eye problems, no?

I wonder if mushy is the word he is using to describe chemosis, which is a common symptom of ocular allergies. It is essentially edema of the eye and it can be external or internal, causing swelling and pain.

Just my two cents.

**gz9gjg** · 30-Sep-2009, 13:04

Hi lasiklady,

I have had "allergic circles" since childhood; several members of my family do also. But I am the only one with allergies, and I only developed problems when I moved to Arizona three years ago. I saw a doctor and got my allergies firmly under control - zero symptoms for months. But there has been no change to my dark circles. I have concluded there is no connection between dark circles an allergies in my case. I have tried various things which claim to eliminate dark circles and nothing has worked.

I will agree that sometimes my lower lids get puffy, maybe they could be described as "mushy". I have found several things that help, at least temporarily: (1) cold tea bags, applied for a few minutes while I lay down; (2) A roll-on clear liquid called Garnier Eye Roll-on. It has caffeine in it, and within 30 minutes I see less puffiness.

Good luck,

Lynne

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"Mushy" lower lids?

"Mushy" lower lids?

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