Need Input From My DEZ Friends

[Sammy B.]

Hey Everyone,

I've been doing very well. So well, in fact, that I rarely experience any discomfort these days (THANK GOODNESS) but I have developed a new problem, which I have never had before: COMPLETELY WATERY EYES.

And I'm talkin, I look like I'm crying type of deal.

I know that overtearing is also a sign of dry eye so the watering doesn't make me feel very positive, but I'll take it over the dry eye pain any day.

My question for you all is - what on earth could be causing this type of dramatic swing in symptoms?? Anyone gone from dry with pain to watery without pain???

I am almost thinking of having my tear ducts checked to see if they are clogged.

Any input would be appreciated,
Rose

[patrick]

hi rose,

its good to see you're doing well!
on the other hand swinging from one end to quite the opposite of the spectrum of dry eye is a bit odd indeed.
you're not having any clue what could possibly cause this sudden change in symptoms?
any dietary or medication changes? maybe when you're on cyclosporine it has reached its full effect and it has given your lacrimal glands a firm kick in the you know where.
from what i've heard watery eyes could also very well be a symptom of some allergy. have you already been tested for that?
clogged tear ducts can also be a cause. you don't have any plugs in them i guess.
i myself do sometimes have watery eyes too,but only if its caused by something that has irritated my eyes like a small particle,windy weather or unintendendly touching my eyes a little too much with blephasol while scrubbing my eyelids. this watering stops after a little while and certainly doesn't go on the rest of the day.
i hope you'll find the answer on your question soon. please keep us posted!

greetz,patrick...

[indrep]

Rose,
Typically this over stimulation is a reaction to inflammatory mediators reacting to hyperosmolarity of the tear film. There could be a number of issues that are causing this, perhaps thinking about what has changed in your routine or environment over the last four weeks could lead to an answer. Sometimes it can be a combination of several small issues that individually wouldn't have an impact.

I hope it corrects itself soon.

[littlemermaid]

Indrep,
We have overwatering after 4wk with lower plugs and I am wondering if it's toxic tear or whether we can settle it - do you have any refs on this hyperosmolarity -> inflammation cycle?

[MaryVa61]

Hi Rose,

I've been on a rollercoaster the past month of severe dryness (turned out to be chemical allergies again) and pain and also a great few days between (great meaning best eyes in years!). Just before all this dramatic stuff, was having the very watery eyes like you and don't know if it's all related. But eyes are great right now and I can tell you what I'm doing differently now than when they were watery. Doing these things due to allergy and GI issues though, didn't change routine due to the watery eyes.

I stopped all products used on my eyes, skin or hair that were not 100% necessary and didn't come from a health food store or the Vitamin Shoppe. Due to strange chemical sensitivities I was super careful, even eliminating things that said "natural", "unscented" or "for sensitive skin". Most of what I kept was from Dermae or Aubrey Organics and I kept my Crystal Deoderant from the Vitamin Shoppe. Also didn't use any household cleaners that were not form those places due to fumes.

For eyes, I'm currently only doing eye scrubs with a Q-tip and sterile saline wound wash spray (it's only salt water, with no Ph balancers or anything). I'm still using my OASIS Plus Tears, Similasin Allergy Eye Relief drops and Travatan-Z drops (for Glaucoma).

I stopped the fish oil Omega Swirl in AM, though will add that back soon and see how it goes. I stayed on the Omega Swirl flax oil every night.

It hasn't been windy here lately and I do think that any wind at all, or being near fans, can make my eyes get watery in an attempt to compensate for the dryness sometimes. But sometimes it just makes them dry.

I don't know which change helped me, or if it was a combination of all. I do know that my "natural" shampoo from a chain drug store turned out to contain a formaldehyde-releasing ingredient that I didn't know I was allergic to before. But I know I'm allergic to formaldehyde, like many people, so wish they'd put warnings on labels.

Good luck with your search.

[indrep]

Littlemermaid,
The DEWS report published in April 2007 is the most comprehensive and least biased review of dry eye disease I have read. There is a wonderful chart about 20 pages into it that puts the disease into perspective.

There are many factors that contribute to the beginning of the disease, hyperosmolarity. Ultimately hyperosmolarity of the tear film is caused by too little aqueous (water) and/or too rapid evaporation of the aqueous. Once the inflammatory response starts that then also contributes. So the trick becomes one of finding the right mix of treatment methods available that provide comfort, improvement of symptoms, reasonable cost, elimination of hypertonic tear film (which eliminates inflammation), a doctor who will listen and help this process and the patience of the patient for the treatment recipe to work. Its like having a great chocolate dessert recipe and putting it all together and then only cooking it for 1/10th the time needed.

Unfortunately many doctors are unaware of the many OTC products available to help patients so the patient has to be the educator sometimes.

[Sammy B.]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Patrick - good to hear from you. Are you doing OK? You brought up a lot of good points. Currently I am not on Restasis. I was on it for about 6 months a year or so ago and I just didn't feel that it was helping so I stopped. I do have a huge amount of allergies (I've been skin tested and am allergic to the majority of things that the allergists test for) so that could definitely be the culprit. And I do not have any plugs in place so that couldn't be what it is, unfortunately, as that would be an easy fix!

Indrep - thanks for the suggestion to jog my memory over the past month or so. I did try the Bare Escentuals mineral makeup and had bad allergic reactions to it, eyeball wise. I still haven't completely gotten over that so perhaps that is what is going on? Although I have not used the Bare Escentuals in two weeks. I am however using some mineral based blush (does not contain the dreaded bismuth oxychloride though) so perhaps that is what is causing it?? I will have to eliminate that and see. The strange thing is that it's not like when I put the blush on my eyes react this way, they are watering from the moment I get up (even before I've put the makeup on). Also, the skin around my eyes will become itchy and red at times, but cortisone cream seems to alleviate this.

Mary - some good suggestions about elimination. I recently did switch my shampoo and conditioner from a store brand to a natural store brand, that contains to parabens, etc., but maybe the fragrance is causing a reaction?? And I guess the people at work are gonna have to start seeing me without makeup on! Here we go again!

Rose

[Hopeful2]

I too am having over tearing, especially in the morning. The tears feel somewhat sticky. I have recently started taking doxcycycline, to help with MGD. The doctor said this would help with the inflammation that is present. Could starting doxy contribute to the tearing? Is this kind of tearing good? I don't have any obvious dryness through the night. The tearing comes and goes during the day. Is it possible to be having RCEs and not have any discomfort?

[MaryVa61]

Rose,

Some natural fragrances do bother me, and some unscented products have other chemicals in them I'm allergic to, so it's really a challenge to figure it all out. One of my culprits was clothing detergent and I'd always used unscented and thought that was good enough. But had to switch to Seventh Generation, which doesn't seem to have the formaldehyde-releasing chemicals. Target, which is nearby, has started carrying it here. My sheets are so old that they probably no longer have formaldehyde in them or I'd order organic ones and be careful who I ordered from. If you have a chemical allergy, it could be anything. My biggie just happens to be formaldehyde.

I can't wear any cosmetics that contain mica (in almost all mineral make-up and a lot of others) or cocoa butter or any brand of waterproof mascara. Even eliminating all that, my eyes have been so sensitive this year due tp dryness and allergies that I stopped all cosmetics. I hate that, but have to do it. I'm having to let my graying hair go that way too, no hair dyes for me with my eyes!

[Sammy B.]

Good things to think about

Mary, thanks again for the info. You know I just switched to a fragrance-free detergent and I washed my face masks in it. I wonder if that is the culprit??

I will have to try the Seventh Generation stuff out. I use some of their stuff as our local grocery store carries it and I always try to buy cruelty free, so thanks for that tip.

And yes the eyeshadow and blush I am using have mica in them. Ughhhhhhhhhhhh....

Could you also tell me how you know which chemicals you are allergic to? Did you get specific allergy testing or have you done your own "testing" by trial and error?

Thank you!
Rose

[patrick]

hi rose,

yes,i'm doing ok although the mgd issue is still a struggle and will be for a looong time i guess. thanks for asking.
fortunately i'm very healthy in all other respects. that's mentally as well as physically.
hope you'll find the answers to your questions soon.
good luck...

patrick

[MaryVa61]

Rose,

I did have T.R.U.E. tests at the dermatologist's to determine exactly what I was allergic to. Besides nickel, I reacted to formaldehyde and quaternium-15 and they gave me a fact sheet on each that explained what kinds of products have those in them, the synonyms to look for on labels, and specific examples of some safe and unsafe products for me. For example, by Aveeno skin wash and Johnson's Baby Shampoo were unsafe for me, contained Quaternium-15. The fact sheets also list other things that people with those allergies are also at risk of reacting to. A couple weeks ago I had an eye flare-up problem, including a big increase in dryness, and checked the label of my new Organix shampoo and it contained one of those ingredients listed as risky on my fact sheet so I tossed it out. Continued to react for a few days after, but then the reaction improved. Then reacted again and suspected a throw pillow I'd fallen asleep on (was only my right eye) and checked my fact sheet which said formaldehyde is often used to treat fabrics. Trial and error has also been helpful, especially in identifying eye irritants. When I suspect a product I look it up online and usually find it contains several known eye irritants.

For me, the tests were very worth doing. It's really helped a lot, though I'll always be dealing with dry eyes, but much more tolerable now.

Mary

[littlemermaid]

Indrep,
Thank you for that, it's an ongoing issue whether plugs are creating a toxic pool when the MGs reinfect and damaging the surface. Seems to be OK so far as long as we treat any problems with drops, as you say. We do indeed have lots of docs but, as you say, dialogue is good.

[Sammy B.]

Mary, were the tests skin tests, or blood tests? Do you remember if they were covered by your insurance?

Thanks again,
Rose

[MaryVa61]

My insurance did cover the tests.

They are not the usual blood tests or skin prick tests that allergists do for type 1 hypersensitivities. It's a differen type (type 3 or 4, can't remember). Not all allergists do that type of testing. Most dermatologists do.

The patch tests involve the substance samples being taped to your back and you have to keep them on for a day or 2, and can't let them get wet in the shower. No needles! Then allowed to remove them (at home) but still avoid getting them very wet and can't wash that area. The doc checks for reactions 2 or 3 days later. Some docs check 2 days later and then again in another 2 days. There are around 30 substances they usually test for, but you can be allergic to a substance they don't have a test for. If you suspect a certain product, some (very few) docs can do cusomized tests. You can find those docs for customized tests usually at hospitals associated with medical schools.