Proposed creation of the "Slimeball award" thread

[Ariel]

It occurred to me that since traveling long distances and throwing good money away to visit doctors who don't live up to the standards of our DE community is not an uncommon occurrence, it might be a good idea for us to start a new thread where we can post doctor names followed by our complains.

We already have a "plug a doc" thread so, if getting input about who's doing a good job is helpful to us I can't see why learning who isn't won't be equally beneficial. Like many of you, I've wasted valuable resources visiting doctors who didn't help me. Not every one deserves to be called a slimeball but some of them do and when we keep other DE patients from knowing about our experiences we only increase the possibilities of them suffering the same disappointment.

The names of these doctors should be out there for all of us to see, specially those newly afflicted with DE that come to this forum in search of guidance. If we make this thread we'll be taking a step towards reducing the number of DE stories that begin with "I visited a dozen doctors before...". If you agree please let it be known.

[RobLIC]

Bad idea. It would create a large legal headache for the generous woman who founded this Web site and maintains it.

[Ariel]

Rob-- I think your fear-based concern is unwarranted.

Last time I checked this site wasn't created by doctors with money to be made off of us and a public image to protect. If I understand correctly it was created by a DE patient who wanted to make a difference.

If you can say that a particular drug doesn't help you, as many of us openly do, without fear of the powerful pharmaceutical company that makes it I can't imagine any individual member of the medical community posing a threat.

Isn't the purpose of this forum to give us the opportunity of exchanging information relevant to DES and its available treatments? What law would be infringed when someone says that a particular doctor didn't meet his expectations? What legal action could be taken against such individual or the creator of this forum?

[RobLIC]

I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect that posting critical claims about an individual doctor on a public Web site would open the operator of that site up to a libel suit.

For the record, Ariel, I'm making this point out of a sense of protectiveness toward the site, not fear. As you know, it's a valuable resource for a lot of people in pain. To put it at risk, for whatever reasons, would be a shame.

Many of us - myself included - feel we have been hurt or otherwise mistreated by doctors. Trust me, I keep my own list of opthal-morons. Anger management is a big part of what many of us deal with. I think the way to exchange information about those doctors is privately, through e-mail, just not in a public forum.

I like your point, asking how is this any different from speaking critically about a drug in a public space? I don't have a good answer. Anyone?

Rob

[Debk]

While I do see the benefit of knowing if a doctor was not helpful, there can be legal problems with defamatory comments.

I remembered reading something in the user guidelines when I first joined this site. Here is the information.

"Don't say anything that is or could reasonably be interpreted as: libellous, defamatory, abusive, threatening, obscene, racist, or otherwise generally offensive. If your post appears to contain a violation, we will edit the post (leaving a visible tag indicating that we have done so and why). With respect to defamation specifically, we will be particularly vigilant and you should be aware that posting defamatory comments may pose direct legal risks to you. If you wish to avoid this risk, do not name doctors."

[Ariel]

I think none of us would like to put this forum at risk. For me personally it's been a life-saver so I'd only want to see it grow so that more people can be helped. I lived in New York for most of my life and I can tell you this fear of getting sued is not very different from the fear of getting scalped by the Indians of earlier generations. What we need to realize is that it is a home-grown product the rest of the world knows nothing about.

We've turned our country into one in which finding someone bleeding to death on the street can make us walk away for fear of getting sued if something goes wrong. What we've done without knowing it is taking this fear to the extreme of letting it rule our lives. When we put ourselves in the hands of a health care provider we shouldn't be afraid of expressing our opinion of him. We post good and bad reviews about restaurants and hotels so why should we have different rules for doctors?

[Ariel]

Deb-- I used to work in film production so getting sued was something we took every precaution to avoid. Exterior shots often included signs of well-known establishments with names we weren't permited to show.

Now, I'm not saying this is "a good idea" nor it is "something that can be done to avert legal prosecution" in and outside the parameters of the film industry.

I'm simply describing something I saw happening many times in the course of my career. An exterior shot that included the sign of an existing business was altered so that the name seen by the camera didn't match the actual name. To accomplish this all we needed to do was covering or replacing a few letters before shooting or later in the editing room.

So "Giorgio Armani" could become something like "Giogi Ormani"

When the phone number also appeared in the shot the same thing was done to it so no lawsuits could be filed.

Let's not forget we're not a film studio that wants to cut costs while making millions for its investors. The only thing we're after is helping other DE patients get the help they need. There are many more measures that can be taken to avert the possibility of a lawsuit but I don't even think is necessary to alter a doctor's name as there are ways of expressing a personal opinion without it being "libellos, defamatory, abusive, threatening, obscene, racist or generally offensive".

[Debk]

Ariel-

I respect your thoughts and opinions, absolutely. But I was just trying to comment on what I thought I had read.

I have seen many doctors like others on this site...and most have just sent me on my way with Restasis and pretty much minimalized my problem. It has been an extremely difficult and trying year for me....many tears....many extremely low, low times. Now, on top of everything else, my hair is starting to fall out.....LOVELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the flip-side, I have also seen a doctor that was recommended on this site and he did not help me....in fact, he probably delayed the proper care that I needed to recover.

I think everyone's case is so different. One doctor that might help one person, might not help another.

I think stating the doctor's name with negative comments might not be the right course of action. But maybe people can have private PMs when they are from a certain state or part of the country that can benefit one another.

[Guest]

I agree with Deb and Rob.

I think a slimeball thread would just encourage a lot of nasty posts about various docs. Some of those docs might very well deserve the nasty mentions, but others may not.

I think it's better to stick to recommending good docs... they stand out after a while... spend enough time on the forums and you tend to see certain doctors recommended over and over... this speaks volumes and points patients in the right direction.

On a legal note, even if it is legal to disguise their names etc., there is nothing preventing a doc with enough money from spending the cash on a lawyer to file some frivolous lawsuit against the DryEyeTalk... why bother risking that? It's just not worth the hassle. This site is far too valuable to place it at risk in that manner. It would be one thing if the risk would pay off in some monumental way for the site and us patients... but I just don't think it's worth it in this case.

PM's are a great way of sharing any particularly negative thoughts about a doctor with those who are interested, and avoids a public shaming of potentially innocent docs...

[irish eyes]

I think it's better to stick to recommending good docs... they stand out after a while... spend enough time on the forums and you tend to see certain doctors recommended over and over... this speaks volumes and points patients in the right direction.

I agree Saag - and others

This proverb comes to mind:

It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

[irish eyes]

.......................

It has been an extremely difficult and trying year for me....many tears....many extremely low, low times. Now, on top of everything else, my hair is starting to fall out.....LOVELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think everyone's case is so different. One doctor that might help one person, might not help another.

Debk

I'm so sorry to hear this. In the early days of my dry eye problems, my health really went to pot: looking back, I put it down to the stress of having so much discomfort and little understanding from medics. My kids literally had to bring themselves up because I was so often in bed or in a darkened room. I remember my hair becoming very coarse and I looked very `world weary'. You must look after yourself - don't seek excuses to give yourself treats.

Your point about each case being different; I find it more than a little strange to hear people in the clinic (I now attend) extol the skills of the main consultant. I met him in another hospital setting and he denied there was much wrong with me at all and he `signed me off' his books. I know that my current consultant found it all a little odd but of course he wouldn't comment on a professional colleague.

Bewildered? Yes - a little.

[Ariel]

Deb-- Like the rest of us, I'm also sorry to hear about your current DE condition but with the right treatment under way you should come to see an improvement like Irisheyes did. It also happened to me very recently and many other DE patients both of us know so I hope you'll hang in there and give it time.

This forum is a very valuable tool for all of us so I can see why none of you likes the idea of posting negative comments about doctors. I'm personally past the stage of "going from one s--t doctor to another" so I'm only looking out for the people for whom this is still a reality. You can't deny that "letting things be" as you're saying is indeed "a fear-based decision". We just don't know what an angry doctor might do so why take chances? I have a different way of seeing things, beginning with the fact that if we're not attorneys and don't know what legal action could be taken letting things be is also a decision based in ignorance.

As Gandhi is known to have said "All evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing" and "doing nothing" is exactly what you're proposing. I'd like to see the day in which bad doctors will fear seeing their name appearing in the "Slimeball Award" list of a large community such as ours where many potential new patients can find it. You all see this forum as a likely target and my question to you is: Should we be afraid of an angry doctor or should a doctor be afraid of making the members of this community angry?

I think a doctor considering the idea of taking any kind of legal action against the DryEye forum should know he'll be sticking his hands in a beehive which will force him to deal with the unstoppable swarm of calls he'll be getting from us and the negative press that will follow. I think it is us and not the bad doctors who control the game and since we do it is them and not us who should be afraid. That's how I feel but you don't need to worry because if nobody else wants it, as it appears to be the case, there won't be a "Slimeball Award" thread.

[hirentherock]

I think DE forum maycome under sue procedure...However one can search about a doctor by search option...if any1 has posted any bad reviews about a well known doctor, it can be easily found.
Making a forum for this seems too risky.

[Ariel]

Chemia-- If you go to www.tripadvisor.com you'll find good and bad hotel reviews from happy and unhappy customers with different tastes and needs. If hotel owners were suing this site I think it wouldn't exist.

I only wanted for us to have the same opportunity of sharing our personal opinions of the doctors we visit. This is something we should all want unless finding a good doctor is less important than getting a good hotel room.

[Guest]

You can always write reviews on RateMD's.com... it's a site specifically set up to rate doctors all over Canada and the U.S.... so why not just post there if one has something bad to say about a doc? (or good for that matter!) They are already willing to take on the risk of posting ratings about docs, so why not run with it and contribute reviews to that site?

http://www.ratemds.com/

I love that site... I've found it incredibly useful for deciding on all kinds of docs... dermatologists, ophthamologists, GP's etc.