IPL - "Dr toyos has the cure"

[Philipp_from_Germany]

OK, so I am theoretically a big fan of this IPL thing because it seems to be an innovative approach which is directed at the root of the MGD evil.
Also, there are some encouraging reports out here in our little community of sufferers which appear to be credible (and the contrary).

It is just that I am also a big fan of this statistically significant placebo controlled double-blind study thing, which is especially popular in my home Germany in terms of protecting patients from wasting their money and nerves on buying snake oil.

I've been contacting Dr. Toyos since years why this thing is not coming to Europe and so far, although he keeps telling me he wants to train people here, it's just not happening. And I wonder why.

Here's what makes me severely skeptical. Toyos clinic is just in the process of publishing a promotional DVD for sale on amazon which they advertise with words such as:

"Don't despair - we do have a cure" "the optimum dry eye treatment":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeOwhe37iM0


Usually, credible scientists and health professionals achieve their fame through the means of publishing studies in respected journals. This thing seems a little cheesy to me, honestly... Maybe the medical society disapproves and so the marketing experts need to save the day (balance sheet)?

Any thoughts on this one out there???

[ringo]

In Bangkok I am offered procedure called "thermage" around the eyes.It is extremely expensive and achieves remarkable skin rejuvenation.It intensely heats the deeper layers of the skin (safely) and as a side effect liquefies the oil in the meiboian glands.However,I am not sure it targets the root cause of the gland obstruction and that means repeated procedures with millions in your pocket.wishbi coul do that regularly.I plan to try once.Here they told me IPL can't be applied around eyes.

[FWM]

If there is really a cure for some and the word is spread I wouldnt care about the way they choose to transfer the information, but think in the people that can recover their lifes..

"credible scientists and health professionals" havent given any solutions for me yet..

[Rebecca Petris]

Unreasonable claims have a number of unattractive features - among which are that they (a) set unreasonably high expectations in individuals who benefit minimally or not at all, AND (b) act to discourage people who might benefit a lot from even attempting it.

So if you're prone to discard things due to offensive packaging, or embrace them as a miracle cure without evidence, the claims can do you a real disservice.

The idea of selling a promotional video puzzles me.

But turning to the substance rather than the marketing... IPL is a relatively new treatment; I haven't seen studies on it - yet - and am keen to. So without any negative prejudice against IPL in particular (quite the opposite really) I just am kind of automatically a skeptic at some level till I start seeing studies and/or significant real-world success.

I am totally for new treatments which can give significant help to SOME patients. (I do not believe in the potential of any treatment to help ALL patients.) I know a handful of people who have had significant success of some sort with IPL, and that's enough for me to be interested.

Maybe the medical society disapproves and so the marketing experts need to save the day (balance sheet)?

Yeah well to some extent that was the case with femtosecond lasers to create LASIK flaps. Ophthalmologists everywhere objected, right up until they bought one because they were the last one on the block without it.

[odydnas]

I find IPL to be a very interesting treatment, and I am also wondering why there are no double blind studies out there by Dr. Toyos and am looking forward to seeing one.... or at least more case studies.

That was the reason why I didn't jump on the IPL train right away when I heard about it....esp since the cost was so high depending on which doctor you see.

Many doctors are skeptical about IPL.....but then again, many doctors are skeptical about the Boston scleral lens in treating ocular surface disease despite numerous publications.

I am on the fence about IPL, but I am glad that at least there are new treatments out there that some of our posters seem to be gaining significant relief from. Having tried practically everything out there, I am now trying IPL as a last resort. I hope it will work out, but I do not have high expectations. Similarly, it seems like a safe treatment that also makes sense to me, so I am willing to give it a try. With the cost and lack of scientific pubications, it would not be the first treatment I would try without looking at other options first.

[irish eyes]

Dr Toyos made presentations to the Italian Ophthalmology Society in Rome 2009; IPL was one of the issues covered.

http://www.sedesoi.com/pdf/uf_def_07.pdf

[painless]

I asked Dr. Friedman about this (he does IPL for dry eye in Palo Alto, California). My regular eye doctor wouldn't write me a referral to him, which I needed for insurance authorization, so I asked Dr. Friedman when they were going to publish something about IPL for dry eye in a peer reviewed medical journal. He said they're "working on it."

I agree that not having a rigorous study to back up the claims is a serious weakness -- if for no other reason but that without it, fewer doctors will consider learning about or performing the technique, so fewer of us will have access to it.

I don't know about Dr. Toyos, but Dr. Friedman has published other peer reviewed articles in the past, so I'm hoping he puts his research skill to use on this in the near future. Dr. Friedman is relatively new to IPL for dry eye, so I'm willing to give him a little bit of time. But I am disappointed that Dr. Toyos has not already done it. (I don't think they could do a double-blind study, though, given that it would be impossible to replicate the sensation of receiving IPL in some placebo form -- and impossible to receive IPL without knowing it.)

For the record, though, I can say that IPL from Dr. Friedman has definitely helped me. I have not been cured from it, as others on this board seem to have been, but I have experienced a noticeable improvement that makes the whole thing completely worth it to me. Having had really bad dry eye for a couple of years and having tried everything under the sun for it, I know when something helps or not. IPL has helped me. I know this is just one more anecdotal report, but that's all we really have right now.

[fundryeyes]

I watched the video and he seems to lump everyones problem as "dry eye" What does this mean ? A lipid problem or an aqueous problem ? To throw out the word "cure" seems kind of snake oil salesman- like. Just my opinion.
I have one more statement about this treatment . Vroom vroom, the sound of Dr. Toyo's Ferrari leaving his Malibu beach house. Just teasing.

[msienkiewicz]

Painless,

I agree. IPL did not cure my dry eyes, but it did help. I had 4 treatments, and I was able to wean myself off of restasis and all drops. I still have dry eye issues, but I am much more comfortable, and the burning and blurriness are now gone. To be clear, I had IPL treatments on my whole face not directly to the eye are but close. I still feel it was beneficial.

Melissa

[sporta]

Can I ask how many IPL treatments did it take until you noticed any benefit?

I had my first IPL treatment yesterday and can't tell any difference yet (and I really didn't expect to on the first treatment). I went to a local doctor who does IPL and had the nurse research IPL for dry eye. They agreed to give it try using the same heat/light measurement under the eye lid margin as Dr. Toyos does. She also did the normal IPL treatment for the nose/cheek area since that was what I had to pay for.

[suebuie@hotmail.com]

Dr. Toyos

It is interesting as I live in Knoxville, TN and I was googling a dry eye specialist. Dr. Toyos's name came up before I went to this posting board. I called and they are shipping me a video for $30 - with that intial payment you also get Dr. Toyos's direct email (which is why I got it). I did read his curriculum vitae and it is impressive, although I agree that it makes me very skeptical. I had LASIK 11 years ago and have been miserable since. I am going to try sclerals first as that seems to be a more reasonable and hopefully, likely solutions. Any suggetions on sclerals?