I think my IPL is helping.

[deep_dry_eye]

I would call $700 for 12 treatments a bar-goon, you're lucky

Is it really tho? The machine doesn't cost that much, and there is no incremental unit cost. The assistant preforms the procedure as opposed to the dr, its pretty much pure profit for the dr.

[farmgirl]

As I understand it those lasers only have a limited number of shots until they are not putting out and then have to be replaced and they are not cheap. I could be wrong and I don't know how much the machine would cost or would cost to repair. No doubt there is profit in it for the Drs but you don't run a clinic for free either so profits are important. I don't begrudge them their profits but it would be nice if these procedures are available to all as I am sure costs would be a challenge for a lot of people.

[deep_dry_eye]

As I understand it those lasers only have a limited number of shots until they are not putting out and then have to be replaced and they are not cheap. I could be wrong and I don't know how much the machine would cost or would cost to repair. No doubt there is profit in it for the Drs but you don't run a clinic for free either so profits are important. I don't begrudge them their profits but it would be nice if these procedures are available to all as I am sure costs would be a challenge for a lot of people.

Sorry for being technical, but IPL is not laser. Additionally, ophthalmic IPL is exactly the same as IPL for dermatology. My understanding is that IPL for dermatology costs significantly less (you can easily google around for prices).

Yes, drs should make a profit, but unregulated profit margins? -- this is Canada, our healthcare is supposed to be public. Unfortunately for "niche" areas of the system, we are dropped out of the system. My only hope is that more drs will get IPL machines and the cost will go down (basic economics of supply and demand).

For example LipiFlow costs significantly less in the US than Canada, typically 1/2 the price just due to higher density of clinics.

[farmgirl]

My only hope is that more drs will get IPL machines and the cost will go down (basic economics of supply and demand).

Couldn't agree more

[hopeful_hiker]

Fantastic!! Do you do yours with corneal shields or stickers? I.e. do they do your upper lids, too?

Fingers crossed it stays like this and even gets better.

[farmgirl]

I think they used stickers....so far still good. My 4th treatment is next Thurs.

[deep_dry_eye]

I think they used stickers....so far still good. My 4th treatment is next Thurs.

FYI -- there's a new IPL protocol that uses cornea shields (i.e., not stickers) so u can do the upper lids as well ... I'm doing IPL in a few days, imma try and convince my dr to get access to cornea shields.


Checkout this YouTube channel by Dr Periman for Dry Eye IPL:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3A...YcH7-6jtAa_zqw

[Johno_87]

Going for my second treatment of IPL tomorrow morning. First one seems to have helped slightly. Hoping each subsequent treatment gives more improvement. Eyelids hurt for a couple of days after the first one, really hope tomorrows is less painful.

[Guest]

Sorry for being technical, but IPL is not laser. Additionally, ophthalmic IPL is exactly the same as IPL for dermatology. My understanding is that IPL for dermatology costs significantly less (you can easily google around for prices).

Yes, drs should make a profit, but unregulated profit margins? -- this is Canada, our healthcare is supposed to be public. Unfortunately for "niche" areas of the system, we are dropped out of the system. My only hope is that more drs will get IPL machines and the cost will go down (basic economics of supply and demand).

For example LipiFlow costs significantly less in the US than Canada, typically 1/2 the price just due to higher density of clinics.

In 2007-2008 Rolando Toyos worked with dermamed to develop an IPL device specifically for MGD. I wouldn't do IPL unless they used the diamond Q4 machine Toyos developed. Not for any other reason than it was made for MGD. He restricts the wavelength to 500nm, as well as other changes he didn't mention to protect his design. I'm sure any traditional dermatological IPL would work, but there is a specific IPL machine for MGD.

[edmunder]

Going for my second treatment of IPL tomorrow morning. First one seems to have helped slightly. Hoping each subsequent treatment gives more improvement. Eyelids hurt for a couple of days after the first one, really hope tomorrows is less painful.

How much time between treatments did you have ?

Im going to try as often as they will let me essentially. Every 3 weeks would be good.

[edmunder]

FYI -- there's a new IPL protocol that uses cornea shields (i.e., not stickers) so u can do the upper lids as well ... I'm doing IPL in a few days, imma try and convince my dr to get access to cornea shields.


Checkout this YouTube channel by Dr Periman for Dry Eye IPL:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3A...YcH7-6jtAa_zqw

What did your doctor say about this new IPL protocol with cornea shields?

Im all for it but cant fly to her for treatments obviously.

[Johno_87]

How much time between treatments did you have ?

Im going to try as often as they will let me essentially. Every 3 weeks would be good.

I have 4 treatments scheduled, one each month. Have done 2 out of the 4 so far. Yesterday my doctor showed me pictures of my glands and said there was an improvement in the quality of oil coming out (some of the ones in my first treatment weren't expressing and now are, and others have normal oil coming out now). Explains the improvement I felt in symptoms. Also my tear breakuptime in my worse eye doubled (from about 3 seconds to about 6 seconds). Not great still, but the doctor said I should have more improvement after the 3rd and 4th treatments as well.

[edmunder]

I have 4 treatments scheduled, one each month. Have done 2 out of the 4 so far. Yesterday my doctor showed me pictures of my glands and said there was an improvement in the quality of oil coming out (some of the ones in my first treatment weren't expressing and now are, and others have normal oil coming out now). Explains the improvement I felt in symptoms. Also my tear breakuptime in my worse eye doubled (from about 3 seconds to about 6 seconds). Not great still, but the doctor said I should have more improvement after the 3rd and 4th treatments as well.

Really happy to hear things are improving for you.

Are you doing IPL in the usa at a Toyos style place? I know in Europe there are some different types of IPL and Asia like in HK has something different.

[deep_dry_eye]

What did your doctor say about this new IPL protocol with cornea shields?

Im all for it but cant fly to her for treatments obviously.

He claims he doesn't believe there is a difference. He claims that most of the blood vessels are below the eyes (on the cheeks), that it should be the target zone rather than the eyelids themselves. I am not sure I believe his claims, but clinically, he reports that his patients do improve after his IPL procedure. He does around 8-10 IPL for dry eyes per day, so I do trust some of his opinions.

[deep_dry_eye]

In 2007-2008 Rolando Toyos worked with dermamed to develop an IPL device specifically for MGD. I wouldn't do IPL unless they used the diamond Q4 machine Toyos developed. Not for any other reason than it was made for MGD. He restricts the wavelength to 500nm, as well as other changes he didn't mention to protect his design. I'm sure any traditional dermatological IPL would work, but there is a specific IPL machine for MGD.

According to my Dr, who was trained by Toyos, he claims that IPL for MGD is basically the same as Dermatology but at much lower dosages (i.e., intensity). My understanding is that the machine is the same, its just the setting is different.

I don't have evidence, but I suspect the MGD IPL market to be too small to have a specific machine type. My bet is that internally its the same fundamental components and just different settings.