Testosterone Cream

[Mr_Cabot]

JCorbett had mentioned the use of testosterone cream for dry eyes and that it was offering some benefit. I understand that a prescription is typically requred for that, but I have seen some offerings for testesterone cream w/o prescription at various webpages. The one I saw was 5%. Is this the same cream or is there a "special type" for dry eyes.

Thanks

[Cindy]

JCorbett had mentioned the use of testosterone cream for dry eyes and that it was offering some benefit. I understand that a prescription is typically requred for that, but I have seen some offerings for testesterone cream w/o prescription at various webpages. The one I saw was 5%. Is this the same cream or is there a "special type" for dry eyes.

Thanks

If you are considering using testosterone cream for dry eye please consult with your doctor and get a proper prescription.

[rhohltjr]

Learning so much here....

If you are considering using testosterone cream for dry eye please consult with your doctor and get a proper prescription.

This stuff just screams steriods to me. This far post-op I doubt it would help me more than the Restasis did. Now that nerve regenerator stuff you and Rebecca and some of the others are whispering about, I am very interested in.

[Cindy]

To the best of my knowledge, testosterone cream has nothing to do with steroids. Also, not sure what you mean by the 'nerve regenerator stuff'. What are you referring to?

[Kyle]

Hey guys,
I brought in so much of the information from this site to my dr. the other day (much of which he had never heard of)...but he did tell me he would NOT want me to use the testosterone cream. He said it is a steroid and the long term effects are not good. He also said using the cream has been linked to cataracts.

[Erik]

Testosterone is indeed a steroid, and an anabolic steroid at that (meaning "bulding up," like the steroids used by Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi et al). It's why men have more muscle mass than women (and also why we have more heart disease, more violent deaths, a [usually] stronger sex drive, etc).

However, whether testosterone causes cataracts, I do not know for sure. I don't think that cataracts are more prevalent in men than in women, and I'm not sure that rubbing testosterone on one's eye lids results in more ocular absorption, and therefore more cataracts--this may be the case, I just don't know and a quick literature search this AM did not help me. I'll see what I can find, but agree with Cindy in the meantime that an Rx from an optho-type who is following your case (i.e., looking at your eyes regularly to make sure any bad side effects are caught early) is the right way to do this.

[Rebecca Petris]

Also, not sure what you mean by the 'nerve regenerator stuff'. What are you referring to?

I think there was a post or two about nerve growth factor (NGF) awhile back. I'm hoping there will be updates about this at the Madrid conference.

[dianat]

I did some reaseach on NGF (nerve growth factor) and adult stem cell research on the internet a while back. Rebecca's original posting peaked my interest. It really interesting stuff. As a former marketing gal, (now at-home mom) I think I may have missed my calling.

This stuff fascinates me, and not just because I'm hoping one day it will be used to rehab post-surgical eyes. Unfortunately, the studies I found were not being done on patients like us. However, there were some good results realized for Stevens-Johnsons patients (and boy do these people deserve it). I believe they were using adult stem cells to give rise to limbal cells in these patients with very compromised corneas. They saw some good results. I was kinda hoping for a few goblet cells some day...

Incidentally, Erik, when are you to participate in the dry eye study? I'm just curious so we can follow your progress...if any. I'm thinking of joining the study, although I likely won't since I'm on a blood serum drop kick right now. I'm actually seeing a doc on Monday who can mix them for me. Here's hoping.

[Rebecca Petris]

Ooh, I'm so glad to hear the serum project is moving forward, Diana, good for you for being so persistent with this. Will be thinking of you on Monday.

Re goblet cells... yeah, ever since that presentation in Gainesville my pet theory has been that iatrogenic limbal stem cell deficiency is what's causing (among other things, like RCEs) goblet cell disruptions in some of us post LASIK folks incl. those who aren't all that aqueous deficient but have pain that doesn't seem to respond to anything. So anything about stem cell developments I'm particularly keen to hear.

[dianat]

Rebecca,

I hadn't made the connection between limbal cells and goblet cells. Perhaps those studies I read were better news for me than I thought.

You refer to a Gainesville presentation...is any of this posted? I'd be curious to read more on the subject.

My plans are to keep close track of my experience with the serum drops. I understand, Rebecca, that you are very interested in this treatment. Perhaps I'll set up a "diary" as I've done in the past.

[Rebecca Petris]

Rebecca,

I hadn't made the connection between limbal cells and goblet cells. Perhaps those studies I read were better news for me than I thought.

You refer to a Gainesville presentation...is any of this posted? I'd be curious to read more on the subject.

My plans are to keep close track of my experience with the serum drops. I understand, Rebecca, that you are very interested in this treatment. Perhaps I'll set up a "diary" as I've done in the past.

Nothing posted - I was trying to get ahold of the researcher (a lady at GWU) and need to try again. It was just in the context of a small and highly scientific symposium on ocular surface; I came across it by chance on the web and asked if they had room for me.

Most of it was at a molecular level that left me dozing in my chair but one of this lady's key findings made me sit up in a hurry. (Especially when they described the way they inflicted - on mice - the epithelial wounds of various sizes that they were using to test the impact on limbal stem cells.) It was that large epithelial wounds would heal rapidly but weeks later RCEs would set in and they somehow traced that back to induced limbal stem cell deficiency. I have to believe there's a lot of potential gradations in there for different types of wounds (eg laser refractive surgery, potentially) and the probability of resulting LSCD.

Oooh, a diary. Yes please!!!!!!!!!!!! Any chance we could talk you into doing an OSDI just before you start treatment and at intervals afterwards?

[dianat]

You're making me laugh...I'm stuggling my way through your message, trying to determine all the acronyms. And then you ask for an OSDI!! If an OSDI has anything to do with accurately and scientifically tracking my progress so as help prove or disprove the serum drop theory, you got it! Tell me what I need to do!

[Rebecca Petris]

Oh heavens, it's finally happened, the jargonphobe of the century is SPEAKING in jargon.

Sorry about that....

RCE = recurrent corneal erosions

LSCD = limbal stem cell deficiency (dont' ask me to explain it, I can't), say the acronym fast enough and your family will think you have a much less exotic explanation of the problems

OSDI = Ocular Surface Disease Index, a 12-question very simple survey that lets you rate your dry eye (ocular surface disease) symptoms. You can download it from the Encyclopedia. It's VERY easy, and gives you a nice numerical output. Cindy first put me on to this a long time ago and I think it's a wondeful way to more objectively measure how we're doing, especially when we move from one mix of treatments to another.

[dianat]

It's a heck of a thread Mr. Cabot originally started....

Thanks for translating. I will download the OSDI. I would agree it's very, very hard to express changes in comfort from day to day. I kept a lengthy diary where I forced myself to rate at least a dozen physical and mental "feelings". It wasn't an easy thing to do.

I'll get going on it and keep you posted.

[dianat]

Rebecca,

One more thing regarding your acronyms. I read the RCE stuff. I want to mention that I've never had a corneal erosion nor have I ever had any staining at all. Considering my level of discomfort, I do find it difficult to believe. In your travels, has there ever been mention of changes in the epithelium that are so minute or microscopic that they aren't easy to diagnose?

Also, when I use Dr. Holly's drops multiples times in the night before I get dry and painful, I do much better the following day. I assume that prophylactic use is preventing damage being done during the night due to excessive dryness.

Weird? Typical?

This is why I'm almost afraid to try the serum drops. I can't stand to be disappointed.