Dr. Holly's 2005 Madrid presentation

[Richard_R]

Fellow DES Sufferers,

I am sure that this information is on this site somewhere, but I figured I would post a link to a presentation Dr. J. Holly gave in Madrid, Spain in April 2005. It is called "What to do if you have Dry Eyes". Dr. Holly describes what an eye drop should do and not do. While not saying so directly, I am sure he is describing Dwelle, Dakrina, NutraTear etc. Here is the link:

http://tinyurl.com/yyz3vz

I have ordered some Dakrina and will give it at least a full month test. Dr. Holly says to not use the drops more than 5 to 8 times a day. I have read everything on this site that I could about Dr. Holly's drops and would love to hear anything and everything about folks' experiences.

One thing that comes through loud and clear in his presentation is his recommendation to avoid thick drops or ointments. Up till now, this seems to be the drops that doctors have recommended to me. Dr. Holly states that the higher viscosity puts additional stress on the injured epithelium. This could well be the reason that my eyes ache after extended use of these thick drops.

One question I had was if there are advantages to instilling drops regularly through the night. For me, I do not have problems at night, but in his presentation, Dr. Holly says:

"We also know that the eyes have to be covered
completely by a thin layer of aqueous tears even when the lids
are closed"

Regards, Richard.

[YGB]

Richard - I have not used Dr. Holly's drops yet. However, since you have historically had a hard time with drops and have used cold water on the eyes every 15-30 minutes, then I would also recommend that you consider Natures Tears Eye Mist ... http://www.naturestears.com/

The eye mist is really just PH balance tissue grade water. You spray it across your eyes and it provide some good temporary relief without flooding your tear film like drops. Of course, your face gets wet as do your eyes, but we're all about comfort and not minor inconvenience here. Since it's water, you can use it more often than drops if needed.

Just another suggestion since I know you that you mentioned that you have a sensititivty to drops.

[Lucy]

Richard-are you aware that Dr. Holly's drops are available from this website? In fact, that is the purpose of DEZ, to distribute the drops at a cost that will not empty your wallet. Just not sure you know this. Go to the home page for info.

[Richard_R]

Richard - I have not used Dr. Holly's drops yet. However, since you have historically had a hard time with drops and have used cold water on the eyes every 15-30 minutes, then I would also recommend that you consider Natures Tears Eye Mist ... http://www.naturestears.com/

The eye mist is really just PH balance tissue grade water. You spray it across your eyes and it provide some good temporary relief without flooding your tear film like drops. Of course, your face gets wet as do your eyes, but we're all about comfort and not minor inconvenience here. Since it's water, you can use it more often than drops if needed.

Just another suggestion since I know you that you mentioned that you have a sensititivty to drops.

Thanks YGB,

This looks like it is worth a try and would probably augment any other regimen without a problem.

After reading through Dr. Holly's posts on this site, in his presentation, and in other sites, I have been persuaded by his arguments and will give his drops a concerted effort (I have ordered Dakrina from this site).

Dr. Holly argues against the high viscosity products that seem to be the products that doctors have recommended to me (Systane, Genteal Gel etc.). He says that the higher viscosity elevates the drag of the lid against the already injured epithelium. When I read this, a light bulb when on and made me wonder if this is why these thick drops seem to make my eyes ache after a day of use. In retrospect, I realize that all of the drops I have used in the past have been the high viscosity type and may very well explain why I have had some temporary relief but in the longer term developed additional eye pain.

If I do not see any benefits from Dakrina, I will try the TheraTears that you recommended in an earlier post.

Thanks again for the thoughts, Richard.

[Richard_R]

Richard-are you aware that Dr. Holly's drops are available from this website? In fact, that is the purpose of DEZ, to distribute the drops at a cost that will not empty your wallet. Just not sure you know this. Go to the home page for info.

Thanks Lucy,

Yes, I have some Dakrina on order and am very much looking forward to giving them a try. Lucy, I assume you use Dr. Holly's drops? Do you have any specific recommendations?

Regards, Richard.

[Rebecca Petris]

Dr. Holly argues against the high viscosity products that seem to be the products that doctors have recommended to me (Systane, Genteal Gel etc.). He says that the higher viscosity elevates the drag of the lid against the already injured epithelium.

Yes, the concepts make a lot of sense don't they? Actually a key reason I first tried Dwelle & Dakrina myself was that in the UK where I was living, I'd seen a number of people using Lacrilube regularly (at that time... Lacrilube and Viscotears were pretty much the only products widely available there) who complained that the more they used it the worse they got. Many of them under Dr. Holly's supervision transitioned to Dwelle successfully and showed a pretty dramatic improvement over a period of weeks, then were able to be maintained at a much better level long-term.

I used to have more information about these products here on the site - I'm in the middle of transitioning it all over to the Dry Eye Company's site in order to keep the products a bit more separate from DEZ. There were a number of clinical trials and things that may be of interest. Hopefully will have all that info and more back up pretty soon. Meantime, there is a lot more information over at dry-eye-institute.org. Also, if you search on Dwelle or Dakrina on these forums, you'll probably find a lot of postings by people here who use them.

[Richard_R]

Yes, the concepts make a lot of sense don't they? Actually a key reason I first tried Dwelle & Dakrina myself was that in the UK where I was living, I'd seen a number of people using Lacrilube regularly (at that time... Lacrilube and Viscotears were pretty much the only products widely available there) who complained that the more they used it the worse they got. Many of them under Dr. Holly's supervision transitioned to Dwelle successfully and showed a pretty dramatic improvement over a period of weeks, then were able to be maintained at a much better level long-term.

I used to have more information about these products here on the site - I'm in the middle of transitioning it all over to the Dry Eye Company's site in order to keep the products a bit more separate from DEZ. There were a number of clinical trials and things that may be of interest. Hopefully will have all that info and more back up pretty soon. Meantime, there is a lot more information over at dry-eye-institute.org. Also, if you search on Dwelle or Dakrina on these forums, you'll probably find a lot of postings by people here who use them.

Thanks Rebecca,

After 18 years, I have learned to not get my hopes up too much, but I am really looking forward to trying Dr. Holly's drops. Statements in his presentation interested me but I have not found any additional information. Here are the statements:

"There are also some eye drops containing large molecules at
high levels. These can heal the surface of the eye by removing
excess water, and healing painful erosions. Here again, it is
important that the eye drop must not be thick. A good quality eye
drop should be used no more than about 5 to 8 times a day."

AND

"Artificial tears should contain high levels of inert macromolecules
to allow them to compact even injured epithelium
by removing unwanted water from between the cells."

Do you have any additional information on these affects?

Richard.