Nu-Eyes dry eye drops

[Gaye]

Have any of you had experience with Nu-Eyes dry eye drops? Their web site is www.bionational.com and the drops look interesting. I ordered them and have just received them. Sounds promising, but doesn't everything? Might be worth a look.

[mspirk]

We'll be anxious to hear if they help you!

[Frank Holly PhD]

Promising sounding eye drops

First time posting after a long absence. So excuse me if I am a bit wobbly, .

Please understand that I do not want to rain on anybody's parade, and am certainly not against anybody's experimenting. Afterall, this is what science is all about.

Still I would like to give you guidelines as to what to look for in eye drops. This would save money and possibly spare disappointments.

These guidelines presently do not exist in a publishable form but when I am ready I will publish them on this BB if Rebecca will allow me to do so. Recently I attended two international meetings on the tear film and dry eye a few months apart that gave me useful insights to evaluate the progress during the past twenty years when the first, still well remembered, International Tear Film Symposium was held in West Texas.

How could you all help? It would help me tremendously if you and any other brave experimenter (with any kind of new drops or methods) would let me know (just copy and paste) the part of the infomercial that appealed to you when you decided to purchase a "new" product. I promise to answer every one of you openly or privately as you wish.

It is nice to be back!

Dr. Holly

[Frank Holly PhD]

More on Gaye's problem

Thank you Gaye for the e-mail you sent. I hope my long reply was not too boring.

I will publish some of my suggestions to you here so others could benefit from it.

I can refute most of the stuff said about Nu Eyes here but that would take too long. I will make a short paper on what to watch out for later BTW anybody who tells you to put 1-2 drops of eye drops into their eye does not know much about either eye drops or the interpalpebral fissure (the place between the eye lid edges), which can hold only about 2/3 of a drop. The rest of it is wasted.
__________________________________________________ _______________

After retirement I was dragged back into the field by the problem of the lasik victims. I was amazed at the lack of progress during the 20 years since the first meeting. The dry eye patients are actually treated more poorly now, than in the eighties! To find out what the problem is, I attended and participated two meetings, November, 2004 in Puerto Rico and in April, 2005 in Madrid, Spain organized by a society Prof Murube and myself organized in 1984.

This latter was the first scientific meeting where patients such as you had their own session. Cindy can tell you! I gave a talk in Spanish for them and so did another American doctor. I am enclosing this talk as an attachment. ( If you you do not have an ADOBE Reader you can read this soon on this web site, too.)

Because...

My number one advice is that, please, educate yourself in this area. (this attachment is a good way to start. It will teach you some basic facts and then you can judge things for yourself.) Read infomercials critically. The weird situation is that even "experts" do not know the true facts in this area because the main stream is heading in the wrong direction. Oh yes, they make a good sounding story but ignore scientific facts because it is easier that way.

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On the Nu Eyes:

I did a bit more search and there are already quite a bit a feuds over this drop. E.g. ETHOS Swiss firm is fighting the Moscow-based firm, who also makes a similar eye drop, teeth and nail (Brite Eyes I believe). I could probably do more research but they all do the same thing.

Basically this formulation contains the ocular polymer in vogue, sodium carboxymethyl cellulose (Celluvisc, CelluFresh, TeraTears, etc,). and glycerin!!! (bad idea). We studied this polymer among many others years before and rejected it . The only thing new in this formulation is the dipeptide N-acetyl carnosine which supposedly can dissipate cataracts. Nothing suggests an efficacy for dry eye and I believe their clinical studies were limited to the cataract patients.

You wrote:

I did try Dakrina a year ago, and found that it burned my eyes .

I am sorry to hear that. (I had some patients like that and in some cases the situation could be reversed) At one time, the pharmacy changed the vitamin A source from a 3.8 million IU/g to an 18,000 IU/g. They thought it would not make any difference. Well, it did. This way they added almost 200 times as much oil base (the original amount was very small, so it is not as bad as it sounds). This caused minor problems until we corrected it.

Just burning by an eye drop (initial irritation not lasting longer than a minute) often signals that the epithelial surface is injured. This will go away in 3 days to two weeks when the surface has healed.

If you like systane and genteal (even similisan) this makes me think that you should give TDEC eye drops another chance. Start with NutraTear 5-8 times a day. I would use Dwelle at night No ointments of any kind. If your eyelids do not close completely use another method of shutting them completely. If you have any problems let me know.

Listen to your doctor's advice then follow it unless you have doubts then you question him/her.

Wish you well!

DrHolly

[Gaye]

To Dr. Holly re: Nu-Eyes

Thank you Dr. Holly - should have asked you first, since I wasted another $30.00 on those drops - they burn so bad for so long and actually seem to make my eyes dryer than before. So I cannot use them anyway. I really appreciate the information. I have recently changed eye doctors as the one I was seeing just wasn't interested in the dry eye problem. It is very difficult making them understand about Nutra-tear, Dwelle and Dakrina, as they are by prescription only, but apparently unknown to them. I will pursue this farther somehow.

Thanks, Gaye

[Frank Holly PhD]

No Prescription Necessary

Gayle and the rest of future Dwelle, NutraTear, Dakrina users. Please realize that these are Over The Counter Products and have been sold as such for a decade!

The compounding pharmacies live under a different ruling. By doing this, they were protecting themselves.

NO PRESCRIPTION IS NEEDED FOR TDEC's EYE DROPS!!!.

Dr. Holly

[Rebecca Petris]

It is very difficult making them understand about Nutra-tear, Dwelle and Dakrina, as they are by prescription only, but apparently unknown to them. I will pursue this farther somehow.

Gaye,

We would be happy to send your doctor information and samples if you would like (just email me the contact data). As Dr Holly mentioned, they are over-the-counter products and the past prescription requirement was a function of the supply channel not the products themselves. The technical explanation for their FDA status is that they are compliant with the monograph for ophthalmic demulcents.

I think that it's never really a waste to try a new artificial tear supplement. (Worst case... you burn some cash and your eyes sting temporarily.) We are all so unique, and what works for one person doesn't for the next. Everyone has to find what works best for them.

[binanut]

This may be foolish of me but what does TDEC stand for?

[Rebecca Petris]

Not at all... it's probably never come up here before.

TDEC = The Dry Eye Company LLC (our legal company name)

TDEZ = The Dry Eye Zone (mostly used to refer to the website, but also used synonymously with the company as it is registered as a fictitious name for same)

[Frank Holly PhD]

My Additional Opinion

It is probably risky to pick bones with the boss but I mean well...

I think that it's never really a waste to try a new artificial tear supplement. (Worst case... you burn some cash and your eyes sting temporarily.) We are all so unique, and what works for one person doesn't for the next. Everyone has to find what works best for them.

She is correct of course, but only partially. Doctors have followed this point of view (having started in 1974 by the implicit when the general guidelines for the formulation of ophhalmic demulcents were etched in stone) that since we do not really know or understand the dry eye pathophysiology nobody can formulate an eye drop that is obviously more efficacious than the rest. So doctors learned to point to bins full of samples from various sales reps and told the patients: "see what works for you!"

And this is still the general concensus even among dry eye "experts."

Here is where I have to put in my two cents worth of contribution. For about 25 years now the biophysical conditions of tear film stability have been well defined even if the knowledge is not readily accessible to the practitioners. So in many cases it should be possible to judge the probability of whether certain composition will be efficacious or not.

It is true what Rebecca addresses that the state, severity, and sensitivity of the dry eye among patients is different and some are more vulnerable to an extraneous "attack" such as the instillation of collyria than others. Yet there are obvious violations of the scientific principles involved in the formulations. One would nopt excpect such formulations to perform well in the long run.

Hopefully such knowledge will be eventually disseminated among patients as well as clinicians so the situation will improve.

DrHolly