Clarymist -- anyone tried this?

[Steve]

An optician's in London just let me try this and it was surprisingly effective when used one time. I want to know who else has used it and if anyone has thoughts on such a strange treatment:

http://www.goldshield.co.uk/products...W&lpsrc=google

Basically it's a lipid layer enhancing spray that goes on the OUTSIDE of your eyelids and works its way through. Supposedly starts to work within 3-4 minutes.

Seems quacky but I'd swear I did feel better that once.

P.S. it does contain preservatives, but claims they don't reach your eye surface.

[Guest]

Steve

There is a post here http://www.dryeyezone.com/talk/showthread.php?t=1383 where this product is discussed.

I have tried it, in my case it didn't make a huge difference, but that what at my worst stage when nothing much was working.

I still have a bottle of it at home, so I may just give it another go.

You can buy it in Tesco here in the UK.

Best of luck with it.

Cheers

Ian

[Steve]

Thanks!

So, no more or less credible than any other drops then. Thanks!

[kakinda]

Hi Steve and Ian,

I've tried as well, (I tried it for 2 months 2 months ago, I've stopped) without any doubt it provides a pleasent feeling just afterwards on the lids (but as far as the eyes are concerned nothing significant in my case). Recently a doc suggested it to me.

Spay it with your eyes closed of course (I wonder if you spray too much it couldn't get in the eye?). Preservatives directly on the eye is certainly yet another story... as you might have noticed .
Whether it's good for the skin or not (long term), I do not know...
the preservative is a glycol esther usually combined with parabens called phenoxyethanol.
one more I need to investigate just in case. I just saw a few people complaining about it in cosmetics...

So Steve as of today, Stockholm or London?
Keep us posted

[woodart]

Tears Again

I use the Tears Again and I would say it helps some. I do notice some difference. Not unpleasant to use. Not a night and day differnce but every little bit helps. I probably won't use it as often as I should mostly because I don't think of it.

[Tony Barnes]

Hi Steve,

I work for the importers so have quite an intimate understanding of it, as you might expect!

Firstly, it will only work for evaporative dry eye cases - this is it's sole remit. But as ~80% of DE cases are evaporative, this gives you good odds.

The key difference with it's delivery is that it uses polar phospholipids, in liposomal format. When you consider the tear films outer 2 layers, aqueous and lipid, there is an interaction border that keeps these opposing fluids together. This border comprises of phoshoplipids - one end being hydrophobic (water hating/fat loving) the other being hydrophillic (water loving/fat hating) - which keeps the lipids and water seperate, and maintains the stability of the lipid layer. The phospholipid used (phosphatidylcholine) is the most common one secreted by the mebomian glands.

A normal triglyceride will only replenish the lipid region, and won't really do anything about stopping the tear film breaking up. Drops will replace lost tears, but themselves will evaporate away, leaving whatever residues behind.

The phenoxyethanol preservative volatises during the spray, so very little if any reaches the eye. This is added to by the amount of time the spray spends on your eyelid before actually reaching your eye - these are the reasons it's contact lens compatible. So far we've had a adverse reaction rate of 0.01% - roughly 1 in 10,000 users have had some sort of reaction to it. None of these have been serious though, and this represents a portion of the population who is hypersensitive.

As for what it does to the skin - the studies show that LIPCOF scores go down with continued treatment, so the inside of the eyelid is happier. For the rest of the face, the product was initially designed as a moisturiser, until feedback got the manufacturers to investigate why users who had previously had dry eyes were getting better.

Useage depends on the severity of your dry eye - there is no daily limit on how much to use. Over months of useage, the studies showed that tear film stability increased, reducing the amount needed. We do recommend if taking any medicinal drops (e.g. for glaucoma) that you leave about 10 minutes between each - it's doubtful that there would be any effect, but it's best to be precautious. There's no need to take out contact lenses during use.

I'm yet to upload another research paper on it to the website, and we've had independant opthamologists give us excellent feedback, so it's credance is growing daily!

Do let me know if you need any more information.

Cheers,

Tony

[Steve]

Thanks, Tony!

Your detailed response is most appreciated, and understood. My further comments would include:


* I do indeed suffer from an evaporative problem, a lipid deficiency, and chronic blepharitis, so I would probably be in the target group for this product.

* The study you mention in the other thread is discussed on this helpful website:
http://www.edinburgh-eyetests.co.uk/clarymist.htm

* The preservative you mention (phenoxyethanol) is indeed an eye and skin irritant ( http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PH/2-phenoxyethanol.html ) in sufficient quantities. Its "hygeine consideration" for skin is 25 ppm, 8 hours weighted average. ( http://www.xandex.com/Products/inker/msds/7824BMSDS.pdf ) . Since it will definitely be on my skin if not in my eyes, I'd like more data on the amount (in ppm and/or mg) that reaches the skin, if possible.

Thanks for your help!

Steve

[Tony Barnes]

Hi Steve,

Glad to be of help.

The website you've listed, Edinburgh Eye Tests, is a staunch fan of Clarymist - he has actually de-listed Soothe as a result of testing the 2 side by side!

We have further information on www.clarymist.co.uk - reminds me, I must get the new study up! Should be up today

With regards to your question, I don't have an immediate definitive answer for you. I've done some quick sums though. 1 bottle (10ml) will last a minimum of 100 sprays. This makes each spray a maximum of 0.1ml, or ~100mg. Phenoxyethanol @ 0.5% would therfore equate to a maximum of 0.5mg per spray.

The data sheet you've shown gives 500mg a day as the irritation limit for skin - that would be a minimum of 1000 sprays.

It has also given 6mg as the level for eyes - that would be a minimum of 12 sprays.

Now, these numbers are heavily weighted - and have no calculation for evaporation built in there. Also, depending on the distance from the eye when sprayed, only anything from 10-30% will land on the eyelids, as opposed to surrounding skin - which would take it to ~ 36 - 100 sprays.

I will however ask the question immediately with the manufacturers to see what data they have.

Though as I said before, we have had only 1 in 10,000 people complain of ill effect.

Good question though!!!

Tony

[Randal]

Where in US?

Tony:

I cannot remember if this has been asked before (possibly even by me), but where in the United States can one buy this product?

Thank you.

Randal

[Guest]

Randal

I believe the product is called Tears Again in the USA.

Maybe Tony can clarify this.

Cheers

Ian

[vman]

clarymist/tears again

My initial experience with this product is positive. I've started using it just this past week, and have actually eschewed drops the last couple of days. Hard to be sure if it's helping, or it's just a normal easing in my symptoms (my problems tend to be very cyclical--but I've been going throug a very long >3month spell).

I like the idea of this product and will hopefully be able to keep reporting good news.

[Tony Barnes]

Yes, it does have limited availability in America as Tears Again - there seems to be a few different products with that name though, so make sure it's the liposomal spray

(I've no idea how it's called that in America - we had to rebrand to Clarymist as the Tears Again brand name was held against an American product here in the UK!!!)

The manufacturers are Optima, in Germany - http://www.optimapharma.de/index.php...e_id=1&clang=1 - if you inquire to info@optimapharma.de they should hopefully be able to point you to somewhere.

Vman - glad to hear you think it's helping so far - do keep me posted!

[Tony Barnes]

Reply for Steve

Steve, I got the following response from the manufacturers with regards to the phenoxyethanol:

Hi Tony,

We do not have any data on the amount of phenoxyethanol that actually impacts on the user, but I may give you some general information about phenoxyethanol:

Phenoxyethanol is a highly effective preservative frequently added to cosmetics and pharmaceuticals, because it is compatible with most of the preparations, stable in extreme conditions and non-toxic. Despite its widespread use for many years, contact allergy to phenoxyethanol has been very rarely described, as its sensitizing potency appears to be very low.

Hypersensitivity, immediate or delayed-type, to phenoxyethanol should be considered a very rare cause of adverse reactions.

This general standard of knowledge is exactly in line with our experience:

In 2006 we had a rate of complaints with respect to the Liposomal eye spray (TEARS AGAIN®) of only 0,007 % all in all, but only about 55 % of these complaints were related to a (reported, not affirmed) hypersensitivity.

(By contrast, the hypersensitivity rate of preparations for topical use has to be expected to be up to 8 % on an average).

If there are any additional questions, please feel free to contact me.

Best regards,

Michael

So their overall return rate is very slightly lower than ours - though this could just be the statistics of them having looked at a lot more units.

By contrast to the topical use sensitivity @ 8%, it seems that this mechanism is very well tolerated.

Hope that's of some help.

Cheers,

Tony

[Steve]

Very helpful, Tony!

I've been using the Clarymist for about 1 month now, and I'll just report that it does appear to have an effect on me, but not a strong one.

If my eyes are mildly irritated, it's mildly soothing, but eventually I need to put the drops in anyway. I still find myself using drops, but possibly a bit less often with the Clarymist to hold things off a while.

[stella]

Claramist

Hi Steve
I use claramist all the time -
It does seem to help, and at least you are not putting yet another thing INTO your eyes
I take a minimalist approach
I use my tried and tested Celluvisc(carmellose sodium)
as often as I need it -5 to 6 times on a bad day, and always in the middle of the night
Twice on a good day ,and always in the middle of the night
(i am waiting for tranquieyes to arrive)
The CLARAMIST is an addition I use it approx 4 times in a day and hope and pray it lives up to its claims
What else can we all do???
I do" massage "the glands a lot if i have bad burning and then try to yawn - even cry to bring tears, as i keep hoping
these will make my own secretions instead of always using goop which does not address the underlying problems
O dear i dont have the answers - but who does
Anyway live one day at a time as the good book says and keep smiling whatever
Stella