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  • anyone tried this...petrolatum

    Anyone tried this? is this in any artificial tears?

    http://dry.org/petrolatum.html

    Treating evaporative dry eye and blepharitis with petrolatum next to the eye
    Warning and disclaimer
    The method described here has not been shown to be safe or effective in an extended clinical trial series. You should not try this method without the approval of your physician. This site's author assumes no responsibility for anybody's use of the method described here.

    Theoretical background
    The tear film has three layers.
    Next to the eyeball is a mucin layer.
    Atop that is an aqueous layer (tears).
    Floating on that is a lipid (fatty, oily) layer, which acts to prevent evaporation of the aqueous layer.
    In Sjogren's Syndrome, dry eye results from deficiencies both in the tear film and the lipid layer. That is, the problem is not only that Sjogren's patients make insufficient tears, but that their lipid layer is inadequate, and therefore tears evaporate faster than they should.
    Donald MacKeen, PhD (an SSF board member) has discovered that if petrolatum is placed next to the eye, some of it will gradually migrate into the eye in a time-release fashion. He calls this movement "supracutaneous".
    A 1999 study published in the British Journal of Ophthalmology, New treatment of dry eye: the effect of calcium ointment through eyelid skin delivery, by Tsubota K, Monden Y, Yagi Y, Goto E, Shimmura S
    measured MacKeen's supracutaneous effect, and found it to begin within ten minutes of application, peak at 30 minutes, and taper down to 20% of peak after about three hours.
    found petrolatum next to the eye to be effective in reducing evaporation rate and blink rates in patients.
    found a petrolatum-based calcium carbonate ointment to be more effective than plain petrolatum in reducing corneal staining.
    Practical method -- one person's experience
    During daytime, I apply a moderate amount of petrolatum to both upper and lower eyelids, using a cleaned finger or a cotton tip applicator. I smear it from the outer corner of the eye across upper and lower lids, just outside the lashes. Following a helpful tip from a California petrolatum user, I now during daytime apply it mostly to the upper lid. This has a cosmetically preferable effect, giving less of a weepy look, but does not seem to reduce the effectiveness. The amount I am using now is about the size of two large grains of rice, per eye. This is roughly double the amount used in the Tsubota study cited above, in which the ointment was applied only to the lower lid.
    I wipe off the petrolatum (with facial or toilet tissue) and reapply fresh when it seems to lose its effectiveness, which is normally at roughly one to three hour intervals.
    At bedtime, I use about three times as much petrolatum, again on lower and upper lids.
    In the middle of the night I wipe off petrolatum and reapply next to the eyes.
    I found petrolatum for sale in a tube marked "100% pure petroleum jelly" and "White petrolatum, USP". In the United States, Vaseline is a popular brand of petrolatum. Note though that most products with the Vaseline brand are NOT pure petrolatum, and would be inadvisable for use near the eye.
    I use a dedicated tube of petrolatum for my next-to-eye purpose, in order to keep it clean.
    Results reported by one person
    Subjectively, I find the petrolatum markedly reduces the burning sensation. This in turn reduces reflex tearing.
    I find much less need for artificial tears.
    I find that I no longer need to wear goggles all day.
    My ophthalmologist can now get a clear (not cloudy) fluid out of my meibomian glands by squeezing them during an examination. When I only treated the lower lid, only the lower-lid meibomian glands looked good by this measure. When I changed to treating both upper and lower lids, both lower- and upper-lid meibomian glands yielded the nice clear stuff.
    I apparently no longer need to use the other measures I had previously been taking to combat blepharitis:
    warm compresses for 10 minutes per day
    doxycycline 100mg/day
    My lid hygiene routine now is just a brief wipe with warm wet washcloth, and a wipe of the lid margin.
    Appearance-wise, I do look a little bit shiny around the eyes -- but not totally bizarre I think. Definitely less bizarre than goggles.
    Frequently asked questions
    Q: Nighttime ointments (Lacrilube, Refresh PM, etc) contain petrolatum. Is this the same thing you're talking about?
    A:No. Nighttime ointments are intended to be squirted inside the eyelids, in large enough quantity to lubricate the eye, in effect replacing the normal 3-layer tear film with something more like packing the eyeball in grease. While using these ointments in the eye, vision is typically distorted. In contrast, applying petrolatum next to the eye adds just a small amount of lipid, enough to control evaporation but not enough to affect vision.
    Q:Could I apply a nighttime ointment next to my eye and get the same results?
    A:I have tried that and have found it is less effective than pure petrolatum. I think the reason is that the mineral oil that is added to the nighttime ointments make it spread too fast and too thinly to be effective when applied next to the eye.

    Q:Aren't you worried about using petrolatum that is not labeled "sterile"?
    A:If I could find a source for sterile petrolatum I would use it. Since I have not found that yet, I take comfort in the fact that fats and oils don't support microbe populations in the way that aqueous solutions do.

    Further detailed thoughts and speculations
    If the anecdotal reports of good meibomian gland functioning hold true, then we have to wonder about the mechanism by which this treament helps keep the meibomian glands working right. Some possiblities I have come up with are:
    Perhaps the petrolatum creeps down into the meibomian gland openings and directly acts as a "thinner", thus keeping the meibomian gland ducts from clogging.
    Perhaps the petrolatum works by slowing evaporation, thus breaking the vicious cycle in which dry eye leads to blepharitis which leads to dry eye.
    On the question "Will we ever know if this is safe and effective?"
    because petrolatum is unpatentable, cheap, and widely available, there is no financial incentive for investors to fund a clinical trial to establish that it is safe and effective for dry eye. Unless a nonprofit or governmental agency conducts a study, then at best we will get evidence of this method's safety and efficacy when it is used, as it was in the Tsubota study mentioned above, as the control in a study.
    Donald MacKeen has patented the use of petrolatum-based preparations as a time-release mechanism for delivering drugs to the eye. I think this holds great promise, and that it may attract some funding for studies of various drugs delivered in this way. Those studies should give further information about the long-term safety of using petrolatum next to the eye (although they may be carried out on non-dry-eye populations and therefore may have nothing to say about effectivenss for dry eye).
    What is the mechanism for supracutaneous movement of petrolatum?
    MacKeen's patent application suggests it has something to do with a scissoring action during blinking.
    What I have seen suggests to me that the petrolatum creeps in all directions from where it is placed on the skin, and will creep between the lashes and across the eyelid margin and into the eye. Of course it also creeps down onto the cheeks and up toward the eyebrows, where it does no good and no harm. It appears to also creep up the lashes and off the ends of them, where it forms dangling threads of petrolatum. These observations beg the further question, what causes the creeping? I don't have an answer to that. Whatever it is, the creeping is stronger than gravity; if you put a dot of petrolatum on your cheek and then wait half an hour, the cheek gets shiny not only below but also above the dot.
    I healed my dry eye with nutrition and detoxification. I'm now a Nutritional Therapist at: www.nourishbalanceheal.com Join my dry eye facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/420821978111328/

  • #2
    [deleted irrelevant comment]
    Sorry, should have read more carefully before replying
    Rebecca Petris
    The Dry Eye Foundation
    dryeyefoundation.org
    800-484-0244

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    • #3
      supracutaneous approaches; the petrolatum sensitivity issue

      Oh, yes! I spoke to Dr. McKeen some years ago, and was thrilled by his ingenuity. The calcium-laden product never reached market, unless I've missed something, but his thinking about getting a topical to seep gradually through the eyelids was very innovative, I thought. After his research was published, Dr. Tseng developed a test product that was also applied supracutaneously (a lipid compound), and I believe he reported his findings, either with or without collaboration with Dr. Tsubota. . .

      In any case, though the supracutaneous petrolatum idea is definitely worth a try for anyone, and seems quite safe, some sufferers (like me) react to petrolatum, delivered topically or supracutaneously, adversely. In fact, I often tell people that if they are not responding well to petrolatum/mineral oil based products that otherwise have interesting therapeutic ingredients, they should consider that the petrolatum/mineral may be stripping oils from the ocular surface, thereby counteracting the more active ingredients.

      I must add that I have at least one friend who has received great benefit from supracutaneous petrolatum, and there are many, many people who do just great with petrolatum-based ointments.

      Nonetheless, it is troubling that innovations like Soothe include not only very carefully calibrated vegetable lipids, but also an old-fashioned mineral oil base.

      If you have my kind of petrolatum sensitivity, what you may feel is several minutes of excellent coverage/warmth, followed by hours of an icy-cold stripped feeling, on the eye, as the thick petrolatum coating wears thinner. . .
      <Doggedly Determined>

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      • #4
        What product can you use for this purpose, on the net i could only find vaseline pure petrolatum.

        Is this just petrolatum with the vaseline brand name?
        I healed my dry eye with nutrition and detoxification. I'm now a Nutritional Therapist at: www.nourishbalanceheal.com Join my dry eye facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/420821978111328/

        Comment


        • #5
          Vaseline often used supracutaneously; other related ideas

          Yes, Vaseline-type petroleum jelly is what has been a time-honored palliative for dry eye, applied around the eyes and on the external lids. . .Dr. McKeen himself used plain old Vaseline like this, before he developed the "DEO"/dry eye ointment that contained calcium. . .

          Long after I found the Vaseline to be problematic for me, I experimented with all sorts of other greasy substances, applied supracutaneously. . .I tried pure lanolin, various vegetable oils, pure Vitamin E oil, aloe, and glycerin. None helped much with my evaporation problem, but none were irritating, either. . .

          Possibly others have experimented this way?
          <Doggedly Determined>

          Comment


          • #6
            Same Thing but With Castor Oil

            Originally posted by sazy123
            Anyone tried this? is this in any artificial tears?

            http://dry.org/petrolatum.html
            Some have tried the same type of application but with castor oil: Click here.

            Randal

            Comment


            • #7
              I've just applied some Petroleum and *think* it provides some relief - I'll let you all know how I get on !

              The theory kind of makes sense and the delivery seems to have been proven - 'creeping' Vaseline where will DES take me next I wonder!

              Cheers

              Ell
              The magic gloop IS out there somewhere - right?

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              • #8
                The theory kind of makes sense and the delivery seems to have been proven - 'creeping' Vaseline where will DES take me next I wonder!
                I found this funny yes i often think that, where will this dry eye take me next? I need to get some of this creeping vaseline
                I healed my dry eye with nutrition and detoxification. I'm now a Nutritional Therapist at: www.nourishbalanceheal.com Join my dry eye facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/420821978111328/

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have very oily skin and my eyelids get very greasy naturally. I don't see that it benefits my DES one iota. My doc told me I have both a lipid and an aqueous difeciency. There must be something in the petrolatum that is not contained in natural skin oils and body lipids? I also note the article said "don't try this without the approval of your physician". My job often deals with infections and some of the outcomes are not pretty. I would caution anyone to please speak with a physician before trying this, whether or not the product claims to be "sterile". You never know what can sneak in during the manufacturing process. You only have two eyes. Two dry eyes are better than no sight at all. Just my two cents worth.
                  Every day with DES is like a box of chocolates...You never know what you're going to get.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    elo sazy.. i came across this extract of yours by myself, one day when i was researching... and since then, i am using this technique of apply petrolatum.. well in fact, my ointment does contain petrolatum and i use it.
                    you could use any kind of ointment and NOT apply it to the eye...
                    i find it very effective to reduce dryness and not so irritating as it used to be when apply directly to the eye.... in fact , the eyes "breathe" a little more with this technique....
                    u can try it
                    If I have to choose between being happy and sad, I''ll choose being happy....... and you?... so.... stop choosing being unhappy (yeah its hard but....)....stop depressing........ live!!!

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                    • #11
                      Hi all

                      Sazy - glad to have made you smile - the thought of creeping Vaseline made me chuckle as well (Spiderman 3 anyone?)

                      Hi Kitty - I appreciate your point of view - just to clarify Vaseline doesn't claim to be sterile however it is oil based and won't support microbe populations to the extent that aqueous solutions do - or at least that is the theory. I am willing to take the risk for now as my doctor is useless - when I finally get a decent eye specialist (which I'm working on - National Health Service is free but S-L-O-W!) I will get an opinion on the infection risk.

                      I don't want to jump the gun but it appears to be helping - we shall see.

                      Cheers

                      Ell
                      The magic gloop IS out there somewhere - right?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mikastef:

                        What ointment are you using that contains petrolum? The artical says he didnt find the ointment in drops as effective.
                        I healed my dry eye with nutrition and detoxification. I'm now a Nutritional Therapist at: www.nourishbalanceheal.com Join my dry eye facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/420821978111328/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My experience

                          This is a timely thread as I just spoke with my eye MD about something I've been doing:

                          In the early days of blepharitis (right after Lasik when everything was in the downward spiral) and my upper lid margins were so bad, in desperation I applied some "purifying balm" made by a company in France that a cosmetologist had given me. And it really helped but not just the itching and burning. My corneass overall felt better and less scratchy. I have used it periodically since then when I have had flare ups but was concerned as it was not "medical grade" though I never had any adverse effects from it. So this theory makes total sense to me. And I feel better about using it.

                          I just started erythromycin ointment on my upper lid margins last night. I can say my lids and corneas felt less scratchy when I woke up but I don't know if it's the antibiotic or the ointment base that's responsible.

                          I'd much rather use something without anibiotics if possible.


                          PS: The base of this purifying balm is beeswax
                          Natalie

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                          • #14
                            elo sazy.. wel i use ointment... and i found it EFFECTIVE.... well i have to reapply it to the eyelid after a long time interval (usually4hrs.. dats depend upon the "comfortability" of my eyes - [which btw hasn't been cured by spirulina ...they just improve it abit...im back to square 1 ])

                            i put the ointment on my eyelid, next to the eye, and i do feel that , as time passes by, ointment is being delivered to my eye by a very little amout, but enough to make my eye feel comfortable....

                            but hey sazy, ointment is much BETTER than using vaseline which HAS not been prepared to put in or near the eyes! the latter can be dangerous....
                            If I have to choose between being happy and sad, I''ll choose being happy....... and you?... so.... stop choosing being unhappy (yeah its hard but....)....stop depressing........ live!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm pretty sure Vaseline is mainly petroleum jelly which is in a lot of the thicker eye gels like Lacrilube. A lot of different brands of eye drops contain the same ingredients like polyvinyl alcohol and carbomol.

                              Mikastef, I thought you found your panacea in Spirulina??
                              Occupation - Optimistologist

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