new ? on progesterone/testosterone vs. testoterone drops only..thanks!!! :)

[MGD666]

Another follow-up on the cellulose gum base/vehicle solution used by Leiter's when they compound the testosterone drops: I have now tried the cellulose gum on its own (an opthalmic solution), and while it's soothing to some extent, its effect is short lived, and like some other viscous drops of its kind (Genteal Severe Dry Eye Gel for one) it actually tends to make my eyes a little drier after the initial relief has worn off. So, in summary, it must be the testosterone itself (0.03% preservative-free formulation) that is what's providing me the most long term relief. I will continue to use it, but it's not exactly cheap at $90 per 10ml. Seeing as it does indeed help me more than any other drop, I suppose this is a small price to pay. I find it most effective to do a localized warm compress (small rice stockings the size of my eye sockets) first, then apply 1 drop in each eye and keep them closed for a few minutes. Anyone else here currently using these drops?

[MGD666]

Just to follow-up on spmcc's question: the opthalmic solution in question (the base solution that the testosterone drops are compounded in at Leiter's) is a cellulose gum - which apparently is also prescribed on its own for dry eye patients. I am going to try it on its own, and compare the effects of it vs. the testosterone drops that I have been using - which use it as the base. I will report back once I have been able to try them as well.

I also learned that Leiter's is one of the only pharmacies that offers the testosterone drops in a preservative-free version. Most of the other pharmacies that compound these (there are actually only a handful that I know of) use BAK as the preservative

[MGD666]

Ah, I see. That's actually a very good question and I will try to find out more about just what this opthalmic solution is composed of. I very much doubt that whatever it is though, would have provided the same effect sans the testosterone. I say this because I have tried nearly every kind of drop out there prior to this, including most of the preservative free salines, the ointments, the gels, and the usual suspects like Systane, Genteal, Refresh, Optive, Soothe, Theratears, Tears Naturale, Freshkote, Similasan, Castor Oil, etc...

Your question about why drops would be more effective than the cream is also a good one. When I specifically asked Sullivan about this last month, he told me to definitely go with the drop as opposed to the cream - and this was also confirmed by Panzer. Why exactly they might be considered more effective than the cream though is something I can not answer, and can only guess that perhaps the application of the cream to the lids and skin surrounding the eyes had proven to have too many potential side effects. Perhaps some other members who have tried, or are still using the cream can comment?

Day 3 now though and my eyes are still feeling pretty damn good...

[spmcc]

Hi spmcc - It is compounded in an opthalmic solution and is preservative-free - thus, it is advised that it be kept refrigerated. It has a "shelf-life" of 45 days or so. One can either get 3ml or 10ml (both come in a 10ml dropper bottle) with the price difference being approximately $45 for the 3ml, or $92 for the 10ml. Apparently, another compounding pharmacy in Houston (Greenpark) has this available at a significantly reduced cost (around $60 for the 10ml) although I believe theirs is compounded only in the 0.05% ratio.

Not sure what you mean by the "base"? This was my first try with the testosterone drops though.

My question is about the "ophthalmic solution"... What is it exactly? I ask because it could be this "base" or "vehicle" that is giving you relief. I guess I find it a little weird to put testosterone ON the eye surfaces... The androgen receptors are in the MGs so people mostly use testosterone on their lids (e.g. Connor's T4DE cream and Sullivan's research).

Good luck with this.

[MGD666]

Hi spmcc - It is compounded in an opthalmic solution and is preservative-free - thus, it is advised that it be kept refrigerated. It has a "shelf-life" of 45 days or so. One can either get 3ml or 10ml (both come in a 10ml dropper bottle) with the price difference being approximately $45 for the 3ml, or $92 for the 10ml. Apparently, another compounding pharmacy in Houston (Greenpark) has this available at a significantly reduced cost (around $60 for the 10ml) although I believe theirs is compounded only in the 0.05% ratio.

Not sure what you mean by the "base"? This was my first try with the testosterone drops though.

[spmcc]

Update: I received the 0.03% testosterone drops today compounded by Leiter's and tried an initial drop in one eye...instant relief

What is the testosterone compounded in? Had you ever tried the base on its own before?

[MGD666]

Update: I received the 0.03% testosterone drops today compounded by Leiter's and tried an initial drop in one eye...instant relief!
This was a substantially soothing effect that no other drop (freshkote, genteal gel, systane balance, you name it) has provided to me in the past few years.
The burning I usually feel was greatly reduced. I waited 30 minutes and used a drop in the other eye...again, relief. It's been about 3 hours now and my eyes are feeling better than they have in a long, long time. So, although it's far too early to tell, these do seem to be helping a great deal. My situation and symptoms of course are bound to be different from others (I am a male and have severe MGD as well as an aqueous deficiency) and the root cause of my dry eye problems was my almost 4 years of Propecia use (a seriously f*c#ed up drug if there ever was one). I am excited though, and hope that these testosterone/androgen drops will prove to be of significant help to me. I want to thank Dr. David Sullivan for all of his research and studies on androgen deficiency as it relates to dry eye (as well as the personal time he took to correspond with me), as well as the "controversial" (at least around here apparently) Dr. Panzer who was generous enough to speak with me over the phone in length about his patients' experiences, and answered every question I had. It's true that this is just Day 1 of my experience with this, but if the initial w@w effect is any indication of how this may help me find some relief, I will be elated.

[MGD666]

Thanks for the replies LaDiva and Dog2012

Dog: do you mean systemic? In what vehicle: drop, cream, or ? Percentage of testosterone used? TIA

[Dog2012]

In my experience just systematic testosterone worked.

[LaDiva]

I tried 0.5% progesterone with 0.5% testosterone. It didn't help. Beyond that, I can't comment. Best of luck to you.

[MGD666]

I am currently considering the three different formulations that Leiter's offers:
0.05 testosterone w/ 0.05 progesterone
0.5 testosterone only (10x stronger, but "grittier")
0.03 testosterone only

David Sullivan had formerly suggested the 0.03 percentage testosterone only ones

I am just concerned that the progesterone component may not be in my best interest given my severe MGD?

Any comments or thoughts about this from anyone here who has tried either or, would be most appreciated.

Thank you

[DCRdryeye]

Jenny you have tried so many treatments and are light years ahead of many of us. Keep on trying, you'll stumble upon something that works magic.

[surya]

Jenny

How did you get the prescription for testosterone cream and where did you get it compounded and what strength?

[jenny2008]

thanks Sazy.. Im assuming you used the cream on your eyelids? i dont know what to ask my doc for .. cream or drops... i tried cream over 3 years ago and it didnt help me either... thanks for replying.i appreciate it.

so what do you use? fish oil? i have heard of maybe GLA in borage oil or primrose oil helping mgd.. not sure though

[sazy123]

I tried the cream progesterone and then testosterone cream. I also tried DHEA eye drops. It did nothing for my inner eyelid inflammation so did not help me.