What Do You Think Of Doctors?

[AprilShowers]

Having attended a major hospital for 19 years as an out-patient I have met a wide variety of doctors. I won't describe my experiences in detail with them except to say that during this period I am no further forward with successfully treating my condition than on day one. On another forum I have just read a mothers remarks, her son suffers from a rare skin condition and she intended seeking treatment advice from a dermatologist. This is her 3rd post the contents of which are self-explanatory:

"Well, I had the dermatologist appointment today so thought I'd update this post. Basically, it was a waste of time. The pediatric dermatologist asked me why I was there, and I said, "Well, it's recommended that kids with his condition see a dermatologist, but I'm not sure why." To which he replied: "I'm not sure why either." He said he would only be looking for signs of skin damage but he never sees those in infants, and that I should only bring him again if I see something concerning. He gave me some information on sunblock but nothing I didn't already know.

My question is what do you think of the treatment or advice you have received, how many years have you been treated, and what was the result or outcome? In short were you successfully treated or not?

[vivian3090]

As of right now; I feel hopeless and that my opthamologist doesn't really quite understand. I am trying to explain my eyes are inflamed, dry and red. but all he tries to assure me is that restasis will help and that this is normal for someone who is recovering from lasik. (although I have had inflamed, red eyes before lasik) but the dryness from Lasik makes the redness worse; all i want is the redness to go AWAY!!!

So i am trying to belive him that things will get better as the months pass, so my treatments sucess or not is still sort of in progress still. But I will keep you posted!

[Rebecca Petris]

My question is what do you think of the treatment or advice you have received, how many years have you been treated, and what was the result or outcome? In short were you successfully treated or not?

Personally I just don't think of doctors and treatment in those terms. I don't think of treatment as something a doctor did to me / for me. I am in charge of my own healthcare. I build relationships with doctors (that is, the ones that have the will & ability to be allies, not the useless uninterested ones of course), consult them when needed, listen to their advice and follow it or ignore it or argue with him/her about it as the case may be.

My articles "How to get better care from your doctor" and "how to find a better doctor" also encapsulate a lot of what I think about doctors for dry eye. Bottom line is, utilizing them is a lot of work. When you're motivated, you do it and it pays off.

[poppy]

What do I think of doctors? In short, not very much at all.

My opinion is that all of the ophthamologists visits, medications etc I have tried for my eyes have all been a complete waste of time and money.

I believe that 99% of all doctor's visits, and the associated prescriptions, are completely worthless to the patient.

Governments etc focus on people being able to get in to "see" a doctor or how long they have to wait for a surgery or whether they died or not. This is RUBBISH to me. The only thing that matters to me is how long did it take (if ever) for the patient to receive successful treatment and was the patient's quality of life improved by the treatment. The powers that be also focus on how much it costs for an appointment or how much a medication costs with no regard for whether the doctor's appointment or medication was actually worthwhile. It doesn't matter if doctors are free and if all medicine is free, if these things don't actually help the patient! Even if you are dirt poor, would you rather spend/waste $20 on a doctor who did nothing (throwing your money away) or have to scrape together several hundred dollars but actually get some help?

My opinion is that the quality of doctors needs to greatly improve, the length of appointment times need to increase, and medications need more proof of effectiveness so patients don't waste their money and hope. In the short term this will seem to increase costs, and increase waiting times for doctors but it is the only chance in my opinion of patients getting actual real help with their medical conditions. At the moment patients bounce from doc to doc given one two minute consultation and brush off from each. In the long term, increased appointment times, increased training etc should actually lower costs and waiting times, because instead of 20 appointments with 5 different doctors to get NO HELP, a patient may only need a couple of appointments with one doctor to get some effective treatment. When will governments realise that crap doctors increase health costs by forcing patients to bounce from doc to doc? Of course, this is never going to happen.

I no longer go to docs unless I need to ask for some basic simple prescription. I may ask a question about something whilst I'm there to try to get my money's worth, but if the doctor is useless I don't pursue it any further.

**If you can't get anything useful in one 2 minute consult, you aren't going to get anything out of 10 2 minute consults with different doctors**

Sorry to be negative, but this is just the way I feel. I can't remember any time in the last ten years when I went to a doctor about anything and they actually did something for me.

[PotatoCakes]

Like Rebecca, I believe you need to take control of your own destiny re: medical care. I'm no shrinking flower and found myself with a doctor who lacked any empathy or even a modicum of personal decency, as far as medicine is concerned. It affected my emotional and physical state.

Rather than just stop going, I went to him for about a year (he was technically an expert) and then began to search for another doctor, one that I 'meshed' with. When I found that doctor, I cancelled my appts with the a-hole and moved on.

Does my current doctor have a cure? No.
Does he offer a quick fix for relief? No.
Does he offer much more in the way of medical science than my former doctor? Not really.
But, what he does offer, is humanity, and that is tantamount to my ability to cope with this wretched disease.

Doctors and medicine are not a panacea for all that ills us; it's a tough pill to swallow when you are suffering, particularly a chronic condition. But there are good doctors, those who go the extra mile, understand the need to keep searching, and realize part of disease management is living a life outside of the condition. It is up to us to be good patients, to understand physicians may need to see us multiple times in order to try to understand our disease, to understand that science has not yet found a cure for many / most of us, to follow directions and work on our mental health (which can so easily crumble when we are facing a monster such as an incurable, chronic disease). It is up to us to find a doctor that works well with us. Doctors are human and most are not researchers. They do the best with what they have; some are more talented than others. They aren't magic and have only the tools that current science has given them to succeed.

A good doctor will be willing to consider multiple causes and will admit when he/she doesn't know the answer. A good doctor will listen and understand that there are contraints in our lives that don't allow us to sit in a dark room with eyes covered, heat packs and constant administering of drops to maintain the health of our eyes (after all, if we can't USE our eyes, what good are they anyway).
But it is up to us to find that doctor and to know a good one when we encounter him and it may take more than a few visits to be sure. One of the best eye doctors I met, along my path, ended by referring me to someone else. He tried his best and he wasn't willing to give up until he really felt he exhausted all possibilities within his realm. Even though he couldn't help me, he gave me hope because he was interested and made the effort. He helped me understand that all of the doctor hopping I had been doing was actually detrimental to my care and because of that, ultimately set me on the right path, even though the first real dry eye specialist I landed at, ended up being the wrong one.

I also would like to add, while I completely understand the frustration, a 2 minute consult isn't enough for any doctor to really understand or diagnose the severity of our disease. Maybe for the average person but for those of us that suffer constant, chronic problems, 2 minutes simply isn't enough. If the doctor you are seeing can only give you 2 minutes, he's not the right doctor, under any circumstances.

I continue to research possible clues and cures for my disease. I may never find anything but my doctor can't be my only source. He helps me and when I come up with something new, provides guidance.

[kitty]

Some of the eye doctors I have seen, particularly the ophthalmologist I saw for my glaucoma, rather discount the severity of my DES symptoms. They say it can be a "frustrating problem" but don't offer much in the way of assistance. Not once was I offered PF glaucoma drops. When I asked for them I was told they were too new and don't have a track record for effectiveness and my insurance might not cover them. Frustrating indeed.

[AprilShowers]

I have just got a letter from my Hospital Consultant informing me he his not prepared to treat me any more and discharging me as if I was his employee or servant from attending 'his PUBLIC STATE RUN clinic'. It's not his clinic at all, it's a public funded NHS UK State Hospital, through NHS tax deductions from my earnings I have paid to attend this hospital for all my working life. I am posting on here my reply to his letter which as just arrived so other members can see what 'we have to face and put up with as patients'. When I last attended this hospital I was not seen by a Dr but a male nurse. This is what I have just wrote and sent to the Hospital Patients Complaints Dept:

Dear Sirs,

Reference: The letter dated 12/04/2012, from Dr ABC XYZ Infirmary, addressed to my GP Doctor, Dr John Doe, said letter from Dr ABC discharging me from attending his Botox Clinic and, which ends stating he would not treat or attend to me further. I received this letter 11 May 2012

I am the patient APRIL SHOWERS, I have no medical knowledge and rely on my Doctors including Dr abc, to advise me on my condition and to treat me accordingly, if a cure is not possible then I hope they will be able to alleviate my obvious distressing symptoms. These symptoms are highly noticeable and they include head nodding, accompanied by some facial twitching and mouth and top lip movement, to a stranger I appear to have Parkinson’s Disease. I do not have Parkinson’s disease, but do have: BLEPHARITIS, MIEBOMIANITIS AND BLEPHAROSPASM

When I first attended Dr ABC Clinic my existing eye condition was explained to him by me, and he had my medical notes to hand if he required further information on this. I told him I had not always suffered from head shaking and facial twitching and it had developed gradually after my eye-condition became acute. During this first interview with him and those I attended afterwards, I expected him to explore the possibility that maybe there was a connection between my eye condition and my frequent head nodding and shaking, I expected him to take eye- swabs or have someone do it for him and to check for a suspected by me infection in the eye-gland area. Also to consult if need be the medical records available to him to discover if worldwide, any other patients had developed unwanted movement disorders following the onset of the 3 eye diseases I have mentioned above - none of this happened.

Without too much enquiry I was given by him a course of Botox Injections and for months [actually 2 years] afterwards I could still feel the ‘nerves twitching and firing’ with the attendant abnormal hemi-facial movement. These facial twitches did diminish in frequency and power but they were still visible to outsiders or my family. Botox partially hides my facial twitches and eye-problem symptoms but that’s all.

[1] During my attendance at Dr ABC clinic I was treat politely and with respect by both him and his staff. Apart from a high percentage of cancelled appointments I have no real complaints with his department.

[2] My last appointment some 2 months ago was with a Doctor PAX, another doctor who I had not met or been treated by him before. I attended his Botox appointment clinic in good time and sat in the waiting room for approximately 1 hour, 40 minutes before being called, I was informed by a male nurse acting for Dr PAX that Dr PAX was too busy to see me, I quickly translated this as: ‘It will takes 5 minutes for this doctor to carry out this procedure, yet he claims he can’t do it due to lack of time. Surely sparing me 5 minutes in an 8-10 hour working day was no big deal in the overall scale of things and I did have an appointment to see him!

[3] The male nurse mentioned took me into a consulting room and told me he wanted to take some notes on my condition ‘for his own information’? I told him all my notes were in the file he was reading and enquired from him could he treat me [meaning could he inject me with Botox] even though I knew full well he could not. He replied he was not medically qualified, he could not perform this Botox injection treatment or give me any medical advice, so what the he-ll was I seeing him for? I may have said to the male nurse that I wanted Dr PAX advice on my condition which was really bad that day, and, that’s what I had come to the hospital for. I wanted a Dr to see just how ill I was [and] I did not wish to speak to a nurse. I did not say I wanted another opinion from another Consultant working in the XYZ hospital, or anywhere else, because that would have been disrespectful, untrue and unfair to Dr ABC. I was NOT agitated or upset during this visit, nor on any of my previous visits. My condition does make me nervous and I feel embarrassed by it but I can control my mood swings. I wanted as most patients do simply to be treat that day and to then go on my way. I am at a loss why Dr ABC thinks I wish to discontinue with this treatment. If someone in hospitals administration at the XYZ hospital cares to read my case-notes and appointments file these notes will confirm that over the last 2 years I have made at least 6 to 8 phone calls to the XYZ Hospital Appointments staff enquiring when my next appointment would be because my appointments form had not arrived when expected [they were often late and quite a number of appointments were cancelled by the XYZ hospital before the agreed date] .

What Do I have? I do have badly inflamed MEIBOMIAN TEAR GLANDS, they are often bursting with clogged up tear film oils, and just like an un-milked cow they are painful and cause me distress. Because of this pain my nerves are suffering and unable to cope with the workload imposed on them by this condition. Your Dr ABC never checked out the possibility that the patient’s twitches might be related to his eye-condition. My past work history indicates that I have never suffered from head nodding, abnormal facial movement or hemi-facial spasm before, so this should have made him question “What’s brought this condition on in an otherwise healthy man”. I wish to thank Dr ABC for his help and assistance and feel the male nurse who saw me gave him the wrong information. Yours Sincerely, April Showers [THE Patient]

[littlemermaid]

AprilShowers,

I am at a loss why Dr ABC thinks I wish to discontinue with this treatment

This is an opportunity for the GP to refer you somewhere else if you want. From your reading up, do you feel that they've tried all the blepharitis, blepharospasm and neuro treatments available to current medical science, and that it's a maintenance job (like us), or do you think there's more mileage to do? There are plenty more ophth where you live and it would be easy to get referral somewhere else from the GP or any high street optometrist. http://www.nhs.uk/servicedirectories...iceSearch.aspx

This could be a blessing in disguise in terms of getting more opinions, but if you like this consultant and want him back, Patient Liaison can find out what's happening with this flakey nurse and fix this. There will even be other consultants in the same hospital. Some chaos is normal, unfortunately, but the bottom line is patient safety - if you're not feeling the clinic's safe for you, and we've had this feeling too and left, or the consultant's not innovating for you, maybe it's time to try some fresh consultants.

I'm not understanding why no doc was available to do the botox injections? We've had ophth suddenly unavailable and called into theatre (which I still think is very cool) but been given the option of coming back later that day, which is bearable if there's a nice cafe and wifi, or seen by Random Other.

We too have been consigned to 'chronic non-urgent' subject to cancellations - day out of school and employment, travel £50 - only to be seen by support staff, no qualified doc. I don't want to describe the slow-burn fury of this, just to sympathise with you.

Meanwhile, there's eg Yorkshire Eye Hospital at Apperley Bridge if you need it. I understand this is where they gather in private practice so it might be good for doc-shopping with a view to a nice NHS GP referral after.

Bit of a facetious comment, but my brother used to drive from Ilkley to Sheffield just to see his trusted hairdresser - my point being there's a lot more specialists out there eg if you've exhausted Leeds, you've also got Manchester. When we got a bizarre tetchy discharge, it turned out after a Patient Liaison meeting that the consultant hadn't had a clue what to do and had been faking it 6m. It would've been better, obviously, if he'd told us this before. Because other docs did have good treatments for us. I'm just saying, in case it's helpful perspective.

You've decided with the neuros that surgery's not a good idea? So it's a question of adjusting treatment? I'm getting the feeling that the right ophthalmologist hasn't really sat with you and talked and answered your questions. Or even that you've had the right neuro referrals. Maybe you can find this conversation in private practice for advice as a one-off. That would be worth the money, even if you kind-of know what they're going to say (we did this, for the same reason, just to talk to a very experienced neurosurgeon, it cost a stonking £300 but it was worth it, although I think about £130 is more normal).

Just to make a point about UK Private Practice: it's caveat emptor. Although there is some guarantee from the private hospital group, their medico-legal guys will be busting a gut to prove 'no fault'. So for botox injections around the eyes and nerves, and any eye surgical procedure, I'm thinking I'd stay in the NHS with the follow-up and 24/7 consultant cover.

Is there any such thing as a nurse counsellor in your GP practice? Or a volunteer eye trust service with good local knowledge? I can imagine you as a supporter yourself in the long run in retirement to people with these conditions.

I am in charge of my own healthcare

[bakunin]

What really has helped me so far is this forum. Due to this forum i have found the moisture chamber glasses and the eye drops that helps me. None doctor i visited gave me something that helped me (only my homeopath gave me a medicine that have helped me a little bit).

[AprilShowers]

To Copenhagen [Little Mermaid] and Bakunin, and others.

I am sick to death of playing Doctors and Nurses with NHS State Run Hospital staff. During the night I have been talking to myself and landed on a problem all patients have with not being asked if they want Abc or XYX to treat them. More often than not when we turn up at an hospital we do not know who we are going to see, and even though the appointments letter clearly states you must attend Dr 38540 surgery or clinic, in practice you will see and be treated by a Dr Cape Town, or Dr Kinshasa, or Miss Warsaw, in some respects this is okay except whilst your 'studying them' you soon suss that they are very young, inexperienced and some freely admit if you ask that they are trainees [it is a teaching hospital]

So what do we do? If it was a garage you'd leave, if they were kitchen fitters you would not engage them, if they were treating an animal such as an horse or dog they have to be fully qualifed, yet in an hospital all these common-sense commercial rules do not apply. A minor concern of mine is Botox needs to be diluted with saline, if your given an overdose due to a maths error by a TRAINEE as I once was, your going to be at deaths door 10 days later [when it kicks in] with a temperature of 103 and unable to work for 7 days. I was told by a doctor working at Moorfields Eye Hospital, London, that if I could last out the next 7 days I would survive but due to it being a deadly poison there was nothing anyone could do for me. For whats it worth I faced death in quite a calm manner, my only dissapointment which still hurts and lingers is how calmly my family took it, there was no flowers, cake or chocolates, no get well cards, no one came to see me, and I now think Death Is A Very Lonely Road indeed? So when I die I'm ordering a huge Irish Wake [a funeral party to be held] and telling them to get me a brass band over from New Orleans. *** Edited comment +. To my knowledge only one person has died from Botox, the internet as dozens of horror stories along the lines of Botox cripples Mary Beth from Chattanooga, but successful Court cases against the makers in the USA and elsewhere are almost zilch.

Bakunin from Brazil: I'm glad this forum is assisting you. Me Too. I felt a touch of guilt reading your post [see above] because I view World-Wide Eye Health as being very important. To explain further: My own nation Britain spends billions on aircraft, aircraft carriers, nuclear subs and this year alone £23 billion on staging the Olympic Games, this is money wasted because 'We are not facing any major war threats and the Olympic games got completely out of hand with it's finances. I and thousands of others would rather see this money spent on aiding people such as yourself, on assisting Brazilian children with cleft palates, on new schools, on job creations schemes, or buying people 100 acres of land that they can farm, even a FREE gift fleet of 100 fishing trawlers for Brazilian fisherman would do more good than purchasing arms and weapons. To give credit where credits due the USA puts all other nations to shame with it's aid packages to the world. More needs to be done and I'm ashamed that a man such as yourself is unable to be treat for your eye condition as a human right, as an honor, and for you to come first in the queue. My regards. Bob .

[littlemermaid]

Hmmm. Would you consider paying to see the botox consultant of your choice for a 'review of treatment' just once in a while (might be able to get a cut-price deal on the basis of this near-fatal screw-up in his/her NHS clinic)?

That one definitely needs to be reported retrospectively to Patient Liaison 'for advice' for the NHS records as a 'near-miss' if you haven't already, in a factual tone, reasonably asking what provision will be in place to avoid this in future because you are now understandably uncomfortable (little whiff of the medico-legal). Careful now, they pass it straight to the Consultant so you're really talking to him/her, but it would bump you up the pecking order.

Junior doctors, I love 'em for an unguarded chat about current treatment options. That little eye-roll while the consultant's talking speaks volumes. Did you see my favourite BBC3 tv programme 'Junior Doctors, Your Life in Their Hands'? A very poorly barely conscious lady refused to let Priya (first job) stab about looking for a vein 'you're awful, I refuse consent, just get the nurse to do it, no, I don't like you, you're hurting me, get someone else' - a very great and inspiring personal hero.

Also, why not an out of season cut-price trip to New Orleans now for yourself, with/without chosen supportive family members, for the jazz cafes? Sounds like you'd love that.

[Colin P]

Must confess, i have not read the every post in this topic (infact none)... But going off the topic title, i would love to know what the role reversal is, and what docs/opthamomlagists think of us?, and why they come accross disintrested or nowhere near as intrested as we would like.
Is it cos we are going at it like a bull in a china shop and desperate for answers there and then?.. If there are any Docs who happen to look at this, i for one would love to read your version of things.

[lulu]

Must admit when I deal with doctor's these day's. I am one cool cucumber! I know that what I have to ask or say is important, but I tend to keep in as unemotional as I can, because if I do not, they tend to start leading me down another track. I might feel like exoloading but I have taught myself to retort slowly but very pointedly. I was put through the mill and suffered as a result of disinterest and misdiagnose's over a decade ago when I used to place my hope in these guy's. Goodness know's what's on my medical note's, with all the stuff they spouted and my disapointment's, I used to get upset in front of them. Now I just let them know, politely of course, that I am not amused!!!!!!
I do have some very good treatment team's however. This is mostly luck and I too have a tendency to be tenacious and usually correspond with my dr's if there is something I feel I need to point out or ask. I am usually armed with the latest research and if I feel it's worth it I will present it. I am battling with my rhematologist at the mo and now my GP as a result. Well I have not declared War exactly, that has happened as a result of my arrogant Rheumy and I am now on the receiving end of standing up for myself.
I think that as people, we do sometime's place an impossible burden on the medical proffession in that we expect cure's when most of the time, there is only management, but that is something to be sought. We also tend to still feel that these guy's cannot be questioned, I can remember my mum in law almost prostrating herself in front of the local GP when he huffed and puffed about being called out to an emergency!!!! I think what Rebecca said is very true, you need to engage your doctor and work with them, it's a relationship after all. Not all doctor's want to have that kind of understanding though and either are rude or just dont want to help. Move on from them. You have too much to lose, namely your precious time if you stick with an obstructive doctor, I did for Ten year's and I wont go into the price I had to pay for it.
To answer your question Colin, I suspect what some of the doctor's I have seen have thought about me. I used to worry about it and try to "prove" myself to them by keeping with the practice and saying basically, look you are going to see I am really ill and not just wasting your time, but that only made things worse and now I have to spend age's going through my note's and getting note's added next to the unhelpfull comments they have made about me in the past. If you were to look at your note's, you might be quite surprised to see the comment's some GP's make about patient's that appear to be untreatable in the first instance. Most people I know who have ever asked to see the file's, have been shocked and angry to see the way that they have been described by some GP's and Consultant's. I dont care anymore and if they cannot accept a challenge, I do now move on. The one's that have responded to my invitation's to work with me, I stick to like s**t and send them thankyou letter's everytime something nice happen's in my course of treatment.
Lulu

[farmgirl]

Rebecca you couldn't have said it any better if you were reading my mind. Give me a diagnosis, that is all I ask. Just like Liza Doolittle I listen very nicely then go out and do precisely as I want.

[eye_allergy-kids]

I think this book will give lot answers that not only stomach all parts are linked to eyes. Read the forward.

Alldoctor read the forword atleast


http://books.google.co.in/books?id=e...%20eyes&f=true