Feeling so alone here in DK!

[NotADryEye]

Kenneth,
You might try warm compresses, Omega 3 Fatty Acids, and Doxycycline and even consider Azasite.
Have you contacted Dr. Handzel and told him how you are feeling? He might need to re-probe the one gland that is bothering you and he might need to do it with a longer probe.

[Kenneth]

Hi NotADryEye

I have tried warm compresses and omega 3 ( Theratears nutrition ) over a long time ( over a year ) now trying other omega 3 and just ordered omega 7....... will make a talk with my doctor about Doxycycline... dont know if we have tried it or something like that.....have tried so much over the last 3 years....... about Azasite... dont know if its available in Denmark....

about dr Handzel........ it seems taht he has pushed `something´very far up my gland and dont think its reachable with a needle anymore.....

but as he said when I was there , i was not an obwious candidate for probing.......wondering........ has over 15 years been ordered and taking asthma medicine.....could that be the course of my dry MGD?

anf the funny thing is.... for 5 years ago I went to a specialist..... no asthma ... and working fine without medicin..... feeling great..... except my eyes are ruining my life...... havent had any succes over the last 3 years with any treatment........ getting worse month by month....... only thing that has `helped`is that I for the first time had got inserted plugs that i closing totally and my eyes is watering......put still very irritated and painful to time and I know thats no making my MGD better..............but know I know that I can produce from the lacrimal gland..... maybe with help from Restasis .. I dont know but most of the day there is plenty tears in my eyes...even sometimes running down the cheek.........I wish I could produce more from the meibums........

[Kenneth]

sunshine lover..

plenty of omega oils.... How much du u take?? Does it harm eating too much??

[NotADryEye]

Hi NotADryEye

....... will make a talk with my doctor about Doxycycline... dont know if we have tried it or something like that.....

about dr Handzel........ it seems taht he has pushed `something´very far up my gland and dont think its reachable with a needle anymore.....

I dont know but most of the day there is plenty tears in my eyes...even sometimes running down the cheek.........I wish I could produce more from the meibums........

Doxycyline - I do very well on a very low dose, 20mg per day. Some doctors prescribe a higher dose. I like the low dose because it has less of a side effect on gut flora but helps to reduce mg inflammation.

Dr. Handzel - The probe is only about 70 microns wide, which is about 7 red blood cells. Dr ****** has probed over 25,000 glands and says the probe offers physical proof to establish or confirm an open meibomian gland outflow duct. He has not seen the fine tip of the probe push anything because it probes through obstructions. The probes come in lengths of 1,2,4 and 6 mm long to reach the entire gland deep within the lid if necessary.

One time after probing, a few days later, I had a muscle spasm in my eye lid. It felt very much like a plugged glands. The pain is very similar. But it wasn't the gland, it was a muscle in the eye lid. Do you think there might be any chance that the pain you are having is a muscle spasm?

If tears are coming down your face you might be having reflexive tears. Your eyes are dry but watering the same way they water if you get something in your eye. You can get something in one eye and the other waters as well, a sympathetic reflexive tear.

[Kenneth]

Doxycyline - I do very well on a very low dose, 20mg per day. Some doctors prescribe a higher dose. I like the low dose because it has less of a side effect on gut flora but helps to reduce mg inflammation.

Dr. Handzel - The probe is only about 70 microns wide, which is about 7 red blood cells. Dr ****** has probed over 25,000 glands and says the probe offers physical proof to establish or confirm an open meibomian gland outflow duct. He has not seen the fine tip of the probe push anything because it probes through obstructions. The probes come in lengths of 1,2,4 and 6 mm long to reach the entire gland deep within the lid if necessary.

One time after probing, a few days later, I had a muscle spasm in my eye lid. It felt very much like a plugged glands. The pain is very similar. But it wasn't the gland, it was a muscle in the eye lid. Do you think there might be any chance that the pain you are having is a muscle spasm?

If tears are coming down your face you might be having reflexive tears. Your eyes are dry but watering the same way they water if you get something in your eye. You can get something in one eye and the other waters as well, a sympathetic reflexive tear.

after the probing which I had on 26 of august I felt no relief from my pain, and the same after the expression by my local doctor, but about 10 days after i god a red and swollen upper lid in the right eye and felt a hard ball/string inthere, and the same happened here last weekend exact same place but in the other eye.........

so again travelling far without no bonus........nothing seems to help in my case...but as i wrote i`ve been plugged many times without result , but now i have inserted new that seems to close very well and i`ve got tearflow, ....maybe also because of restasis, i dont know...............

really hope that i inhere can meet someone recognising my situation , ...not searching for the magic bullet, just searching for something that can bring me back to life........maybe i should travel to Oslo,,,,risking to be disappointed,,,,again..........

I wish I knew what could help reducing my pain.....

[NotADryEye]

Kenneth, you might consider going back to Dr. Handzel so he can re-evaluate your case.

Also, I just wanted to clarify about the muscle spasm I had. It wasn't caused by the probing. I get muscle spasms in the lids periodically, most likely because of my thyroid condition. So for me this spasm is a co-morbidity, one of many, many, many that I have had and some that I continue to experience.

I can't help but think that you too have many things going on, many co-morbidities, and each of them needs to be addressed. Sometimes symptomatically the different conditions feel a lot like each other. Personally I think that's because there are so many nerves in the eyes. Everything is so much more pronounced. A little eye lash feels like a log. This is why it might be best for you to see Dr. Handzel, so he can evaluate and determine what else needs to be done.

Incidentally, that is how Dr. ****** has handled my case over these last 2 years. At any point I might say that I still can't function like I used to, but all the time, bit by bit, month by month, I am getting better and better. He addresses each of my new complaints as they come up. Sometimes these things that cause pain have to treated again and again, like my demodex problem. It takes time to treat this and then you still have to resolve each of the other different diseases that are contributing to your symptoms. In some cases you will be treating a disease that is like high blood pressure. You can't feel it but it needs to be fixed. And at other times you will be treating a disease like a cut. Once it is heals you don't have pain any more.

Probing for you may have been like treating high blood pressure. How did it feel when Dr. Handzel probed. Could you hear pops or could you feel resistance when the probe went in?

[Kenneth]

Kenneth, you might consider going back to Dr. Handzel so he can re-evaluate your case.

Also, I just wanted to clarify about the muscle spasm I had. It wasn't caused by the probing. I get muscle spasms in the lids periodically, most likely because of my thyroid condition. So for me this spasm is a co-morbidity, one of many, many, many that I have had and some that I continue to experience.

I can't help but think that you too have many things going on, many co-morbidities, and each of them needs to be addressed. Sometimes symptomatically the different conditions feel a lot like each other. Personally I think that's because there are so many nerves in the eyes. Everything is so much more pronounced. A little eye lash feels like a log. This is why it might be best for you to see Dr. Handzel, so he can evaluate and determine what else needs to be done.

Incidentally, that is how Dr. ****** has handled my case over these last 2 years. At any point I might say that I still can't function like I used to, but all the time, bit by bit, month by month, I am getting better and better. He addresses each of my new complaints as they come up. Sometimes these things that cause pain have to treated again and again, like my demodex problem. It takes time to treat this and then you still have to resolve each of the other different diseases that are contributing to your symptoms. In some cases you will be treating a disease that is like high blood pressure. You can't feel it but it needs to be fixed. And at other times you will be treating a disease like a cut. Once it is heals you don't have pain any more.

Probing for you may have been like treating high blood pressure. How did it feel when Dr. Handzel probed. Could you hear pops or could you feel resistance when the probe went in?

Handzel is not my doc I was just advised to get a probing and he was the nearest to make it.--- dont think he is a dry eye expert

I felt pops everytime the needle went througt......i couldnt feel resistance

You must understand that my experience is that everytime I met a new doc they dont understand that I have so much pain, thats not what they are seeing.........to describe my pain is that its very difficult for me to get through the days, and most time i would rather be lying down with closed eyes ....
from 2010 to know my wisits at the hospital made no improvement for me..... only my sclerals. which I got myself gives me a little relief..

after Restasis my schirmer is quite good ( over 10 ) and last time my TBUT 10, bu no change in my comfort still very painful eyes.....so thats why I desperate look for help inhere......just a little step would make me smile .... if i still remember how it is...
And it seems that there is no specialist in Denmark. who can help me....so im very much alone with my problem........
if the pain wasnt so massive it was easyer to be selective about my condision but every day is a struggle for me to get through...

[kylix]

did you hear about corneal neuralgia? Could be that, not visible, unexplainable pain and impaired ocular nerves could also be responsible for low production of meibum. I think only confocal microscopy can reveal/confirm that. In Germany it's definitely available, but I suppose it must be available also in Denmark. In some big hospital, probably teaching.

[NotADryEye]

Handzel is not my doc

I felt pops everytime the needle went througt......i couldnt feel resistance

to describe my pain is that its very difficult for me to get through the days, and most time i would rather be lying down with closed eyes ....
every day is a struggle for me to get through...

Kenneth, I know your pain. I have been just like you. The only thing that helped was keeping my eyes closed. In time you will find a solution. Please do not give up hope.

The "pops" indicate that there is fibrous tissue obstructing the opening of the meibomian glands. If you heard the pop sound every time the probe went in that means every gland was obstructed. The obstructive tissue is like a ring inside the gland. Most of my glands popped whenever I have been probed. I also felt grittiness, this is believed to be multiple pops in one gland, or multiple rings of obstructive tissue.

Since you heard pops every time the probe went in, it is very good that you were probed so now at least you have unobstructed ducts that can channel the meibum. You do understand this, yes?

But here you are still in pain. If your glands were obstructed as severely as they were it is also possible, and even quite possible, that you developed symptomatic conjunctival chalasis. The only thing that helped me when I had this was keeping my eyes closed all the time. I was relatively comfortable if I kept them closed. But if I opened them for even a few blinks the pain would return. It felt sometimes like tissues stuffed under my eye lids. It was terrible.

Conjunctival chalasis is a wrinklining of the conjunctiva, the tissue over the white of the eye. The tissue gets pinched and it is wrinkled. This puts further stress on the meibomian glands and the cycle of plugged glands, chalasis worsens.

A few months after probing (it was months later because of other medical conditions I had) I had surgery to replace the tissue that was wrinkled. The surgery was amniotic membrane transplantation. My surgery was completely successful and once I healed the pain of chalasis was completely gone. I am still resolving other issues e.g. demodex mites, but I am feeling much much better and can keep my eyes opened all day without a problem.

Perhaps, if you can find a corneal specialist, and perhaps even Dr. Handzel, although you need to see a surgeon, you can ask about conjucntival chalasis. After probing if you have symptomatic conjuctival chalasis you will not necessarily feel better, but the probing is still a necessary step in getting better because you have to have the meibum flowing in order to lubricate the conjunctiva so it does not wrinkle again.

And you said your Schirmer test is normal. Although I believe 10 is a little low. I don't recall. I know that eventually my Schirmer increased considerably, but there are different types of Schirmer tests and we may not have had the same type.

If you would like to speak via Skype let me know. I am happy to talk to you. It is probably more comfortable to talk for you so you don't have to read or write and you can keep your eyes closed.

You can send me a private message with your Skype name.

Kenneth, I am so sorry that you are feeling like this. But you will find a solution and you will feel better. We are all here to help.

[Kenneth]

Kenneth, I know your pain. I have been just like you. The only thing that helped was keeping my eyes closed. In time you will find a solution. Please do not give up hope.

The "pops" indicate that there is fibrous tissue obstructing the opening of the meibomian glands. If you heard the pop sound every time the probe went in that means every gland was obstructed. The obstructive tissue is like a ring inside the gland. Most of my glands popped whenever I have been probed. I also felt grittiness, this is believed to be multiple pops in one gland, or multiple rings of obstructive tissue.

Since you heard pops every time the probe went in, it is very good that you were probed so now at least you have unobstructed ducts that can channel the meibum. You do understand this, yes?

But here you are still in pain. If your glands were obstructed as severely as they were it is also possible, and even quite possible, that you developed symptomatic conjunctival chalasis. The only thing that helped me when I had this was keeping my eyes closed all the time. I was relatively comfortable if I kept them closed. But if I opened them for even a few blinks the pain would return. It felt sometimes like tissues stuffed under my eye lids. It was terrible.

Conjunctival chalasis is a wrinklining of the conjunctiva, the tissue over the white of the eye. The tissue gets pinched and it is wrinkled. This puts further stress on the meibomian glands and the cycle of plugged glands, chalasis worsens.

A few months after probing (it was months later because of other medical conditions I had) I had surgery to replace the tissue that was wrinkled. The surgery was amniotic membrane transplantation. My surgery was completely successful and once I healed the pain of chalasis was completely gone. I am still resolving other issues e.g. demodex mites, but I am feeling much much better and can keep my eyes opened all day without a problem.

Perhaps, if you can find a corneal specialist, and perhaps even Dr. Handzel, although you need to see a surgeon, you can ask about conjucntival chalasis. After probing if you have symptomatic conjuctival chalasis you will not necessarily feel better, but the probing is still a necessary step in getting better because you have to have the meibum flowing in order to lubricate the conjunctiva so it does not wrinkle again.

And you said your Schirmer test is normal. Although I believe 10 is a little low. I don't recall. I know that eventually my Schirmer increased considerably, but there are different types of Schirmer tests and we may not have had the same type.

If you would like to speak via Skype let me know. I am happy to talk to you. It is probably more comfortable to talk for you so you don't have to read or write and you can keep your eyes closed.

You can send me a private message with your Skype name.

Kenneth, I am so sorry that you are feeling like this. But you will find a solution and you will feel better. We are all here to help.

Hi and thanks.... I´ve send You my skype info private.....

about chalasis.... i saw youtube video...a doc told that there was pain specific areas in the eye that the patient could point out... i think not thats how my eyes are working.....but lets talk on skype.... looking forward to it....where are U from.......?? here it is noon now in Denmark :-)