Dry Skin around the eyes, and wrinkling! I hate this!!

[boston]

Hi. How many of you all are Post-Lasik DES sufferers, and do any of you have very dry skin under the eyes now, and subsequent wrinkling? This is bothering me.. to say the least! I can't figure out if this is caused by post-lasik dry eye and the MGD I've now been diagnosed with, or if its just that I'm getting older I can't remember if I had dry skin before lasik 6 years ago.
What do you guys think?
Thanks for all your input, and for any advice from any of you all.

Ben
36 years old/young??

[DCRdryeye]

I haven't had LASIK but dry eyes induced by another surgical procedure (DCR). I definitely have noticed more wrinkles around my eyes and side of nose due to all the squinting from my irritated eyes. The copious amounts of eye drops I use also run down the face causing thinning or skin. The only thing you can do about it is use an eye moisturizer or get a peel done. I wouldn't recommend botox since it can cause dry eyes too.

[boston]

Peels really work for this??

[jenny2008]

i would think a peel would dry you out more? but i havent looked into it... maybe it could help? can we get more info

[Judgeterri]

I have this problem & have found it is directly connected to the MGD when it gets a little better for short periods of time do dies the wrinkling. Hot compresses & massages with lid cleaning under eyes has been only thing that has seemed to help. I have never had wrinkles under eyes & now I look like I'm in my 70's instead of my 50's. Hate is too mild to describe how i feel!����

[DCRdryeye]

Having a peel from a qualified dermatologist or cosmetic surgeon usually reveals new and fresher skin underneath. Then you need to maintain it by applying a moisturizer daily. Two other options:
Use a high end moisturizer: http://www.eyeserum.com/
Conceal it with eyesential: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLx_y6IgksU

Using hot compresses and massaging the eyelids and around the eyes is something that you really have to do anyway. I'm not sure if that alone is enough to reverse the wrinkling the dry eyes has done to the surrounding tissues of the eyes.

[littlemermaid]

JudgeTerri, Yours may be inflammation then - some people here are saying cucumber or cold green tea bags has helped with this - traditional but hey, if it works.

With rosacea, we like a very basic honey/beeswax base moisturiser and cleansers with absolutely no chemicals or added perfumes, especially near the eyes. Bee products are helpful to us - no hypersensitivity reactions.

[unicorn]

LM may I ask what cleansers you use? And while I'm at it, do you find sunscreens tolerable? I have always been a firm believer in using them particularly in rosacea but I am wondering if they may be an irritant.

[littlemermaid]

Hi, Unicorn. To clarify, we are paediatric hypersensitive acne rosacea with flareups + mgd. The experience below is what we use for maintenance in good times to keep off stronger meds. Apart from that, it's all great!

The key has been to calm things down by stopping products with components that make it worse, even though they have other components that make it better. Same with the eyedrops.

All bathroom products are a nightmare for this rosacea skin so we are trying to become more aware of what doesn't cause tingling, redness, flush. Basically, it has to be organic with no perfumes or additives, inc shampoos.

Famous Prof said try pH neutral Simple products, minimum intervention, see if it helps - but then we got infected flareups - generally Simple range is good for LM's teenage twin who just has the normal slight acne, also Avene. Although I'm a real Neutrogena and Clinique fan generally for myself, these caused problems with LM's hypersensitvity.

Paediatric Gentle Intervention prescribed Dermol 500 (liquid paraffin, isopropyl myristate, benzalkonium chloride and chlorhexidine hydrochloride) successfully to prevent infected flareups. And she was right. Available over-the-counter as Freederm but it used to be prescription only so handle antibacs with care.

Moisturisers calm things right down, help protective dermal matrix, so the immune response is not panicking so much and over-producing sebum. She does very well indeed on some of these http://www.naturesgiftuk.co.uk/ with minimum ingredients (not propolis for some reason). And combined with careful diet, we are achieving white nose and calm skin <weeps with gratitude to bees> and our beloved ophth perks up happily and gets interested in what we're doing.

Also does well on shampoos and conditioners from http://www.drorganic.co.uk/honey-products.asp although I find it difficult to go into Holland & Barrett because of the annoying ad, this stuff is cheap and we both like to use it. Also uses and likes Avalon Organic Tea Tree shampoo and Conditioner once in a while (getting uncomfortable on Head & Shoulders) because I've got lots of theories about dermatophytes and sebum, to keep that under control.

Beeswax seems to me to be compatible and helpful for human skin. And the honey is a dream helper - antibacterial, antifungal, gentle - because the bees make it to protect the grub against infiltrates in that cramped up hive. Check out Regina's posts and PubMed 'eye honey' if you like this idea. Body Shop beeswax, honey and paraffinum with nothing else suited me perfectly but it was discontinued in the 80s!

Medihoney I like generally - even used in the NHS as an antibacterial for recalcitrant leg ulcers. http://www.dermasciences.com

I was brought up by a deeply prejudiced and grumpy pathologist and am cynical by nature so even going into an alternative health shop is a strain... lol

Sunscreens are a nightmare. I haven't found one that doesn't cause problems. And they are essential. We are using big hats and wraparound sunglasses for this Europe trip she's on currently with school - 30 degrees in S Italy so the rhinophyma nose damage could be permanent. She's on hypersensitive baby sunblock with no perfumes etc - it blobs on white, bless her, and the fashionistas can be merciless. I'm listening to Americans and Australians on this one http://www.dryeyezone.com/talk/showt...ght=#post72302

http://www.dryeyezone.com/talk/showt...ght=#post70553 This is a very important thread and helped us a lot - look what Scout and MaryVA61 have discovered about how their eyes improved on eliminating environmental toxins - not just detergents, but formaldehyde in furniture and other nasty things sprayed on clothes and fabrics for transit that don't wash out.

I'm getting the point of organic now. These seem like small factors until we consider how an allergic response works.

Hope this rambling helps someone with the OTC moisturisers and skin treatments and makeup - I think unfortunately the advertising and beautician trade cons us into thinking they are good for everyone but not if we've got sensitive eyes with an inflammation reaction to components of them.

[unicorn]

Thanks ever so much for that detailed reply. Very interesting as always, lots to think about . Being cynical is not a bad thing - particularly when it comes to advertising etc. You do seem to have a scientific mind about all this - perhaps the upbringing?! - again very important when trying to get to the root cause of all these problems.

Personally, my skin is nowhere near as 'reactive' as your daughter's, to cosmetics etc. Although I'm sure they play a part. For this reason it's harder to identify triggers. My skin will flush in response to stress, heat, sometimes alcohol, and sometimes 'randomly' (poss foods? although not sure), but not in response to a cream or shampoo or whatever, at least not immediately and obviously. I don't really get 'acne rosacea spots', just small red bumps/papules on my cheeks when I have been flushing a lot. I was very grateful to the GP who recently agreed that I have rosacea - he even said, insightfully, "I'm probably not seeing you at your worst" - before that (I've had it for about 12 years), the only GP I'd seen about it rather vaguely said when I asked her if my frequent flushing could be rosacea, "it could be" - before that she'd prescribed beta blockers.

I have always used 'gentle' face products, often researching them first through makeupalley.com to see if people with rosacea or sensitive skin do well on them. There is a lot of discussions about sunscreens on the boards there - so many people can't use them, or can only use physical rather than chemical sunscreens (ie zinc oxide or titanium dioxide). Have you tried all-physical sunblocks? Not all 'hypersensitive' ones are. Some people really can't tolerate any and I have read discussions about the use of topical antioxidants (eg vitamin C serum) to prevent sun damage.

I am about to try a new moisturiser by La Roche Posay called Toleriane Ultra; it's specifically for allergic/intolerant skin and contains no preservatives. I will look into the naturesgift ones too. I know what you mean about Holland and Barrett - too many products, too little knowledge. I have used the Dr Organic range though - currently using the tea tree shampoo on and off, like you because of dermatophytes. Have used their manuka honey lip balm too - lovely - might have a look at other stuff in the range.

Incidentally, I avoid Clinique products like the plague. It's so heavily advertised and targeted at sensitive skin yet I found it is the worst stuff I've used - particularly the clarifying lotion, which I was using when my rosacea first surfaced around 12 years ago. Really harsh stuff - terrible.

[littlemermaid]

Great info, thanks. We'll have a look at Toleraine Ultra, and I've been trawling Makeupalley.com as you recommended so thanks for that. I am clueless on sunblock - it's costing me a fortune too when they don't do testers.

I'm tring to read up on this hypersensitivity type reaction - eg she got pressure urticaria while on an eye steroid combo. It seems to be an allergic response that can happen up to days later, search 'type IV hypersensitivity'.

Good luck Friday.

[unicorn]

Some links for you:

http://www.makeupalley.com/user/notepad/sunscreens
http://www.makeupalley.com/user/notepad/gingerrama

Def think about trying all-physical sunscreens first.

Also, just occurred to me - a good site for DIY-skin care (if you want to formulate your own version of that Body Shop product!)
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6

[unicorn]

Ben - have you tried cold compresses? They may help with inflammation which could be contributing to bags & wrinkles. Also, do you use a cream or moisturiser for the undereye area? I use Rosehip Seed Oil, it's very moisturising and also completely natural/organic. I have heard that a lot of people like unrefined shea butter also, although I haven't tried it.