Saw Palmetto - okay, or avoid at all costs?

[MGD666]

I had been taking Saw Palmetto supplements (along with Propecia) for quite a few years - and once I found out the horrible truth regarding propecia/finasteride use and it leading to my MGD, I stopped taking both it and the Saw Palmetto. I had read a few things linking Saw to dry eye, so didn't want to take any chances. I am however considering starting to take it again , but wanted to ask about anyone's experiences with it - and perhaps some input or recommendations for or against it (guys?)

[DCRdryeye]

Hi MGD666 - I've been taking Finasteride to prevent MPB since 1998. My dry eye problems started in 2007 - so 10 yrs after using Finasteride. I am fully aware of the studies into anti-androgens contributing to poor tear film stability and MGD. The lacrimal glands and Meibomian glands contain DHT receptors, and androgens are needed to assist in the secretions of tears and meibum.

A top dry eye specialist ophthalmologist in Australia recommended I cease using it. I did so for nearly a year and got into real trouble with hair loss. Despite being off it for so long it did nothing to improve my eyes at all. I've read about other guys stopping finasteride with very little relief of their dry eye symptoms. Possibly, the damage has already been done! So why become bald as a billiard ball by stopping Finasteride if it's not going to improve symptoms at all?
Saw Palmetto is not as strong as Finasteride, I've been on that too, but it doesn't really prevent hairloss as effective as Finasteride. I doubt Saw Palmetto would cause dry eyes.
Vanity is a curse!

[MGD666]

Thanks for your input DCR.

re: I've read about other guys stopping finasteride with very little relief of their dry eye symptoms. Possibly, the damage has already been done! So why become bald as a billiard ball by stopping Finasteride if it's not going to improve symptoms at all?

Well, I had a meibography which revealed I had over 70% drop-out/loss of my meibomian glands - a large percentage of which I attribute to my finasteride use for 4-5 years. I had no such dry eye problems prior to using it, although it did take about 4 years to do its damage to my glands. And while you may very well be right when you assert that the damage may have already been done, I am personally not willing to go back on fin and very possibly obliterate what's left of the precious few functioning (albeit poorly) meibomian glands I do have. Vanity can indeed be a curse, and hair loss is certainly no fun, but the ongoing nightmare that is severe dry eye is so much worse. If I could regain my healthy, properly lubricated, and normally functioning eyes again, I'd gladly be bald as a billiard cue ball! Just my $.02

[DCRdryeye]

MGD I admire your courage to stop fin and graciously go bald. I agree you don't want to lose anymore meibomian glands, especially since you have so few left. I've also had a meibography test and have no drop out on my right eye and just a quarter drop out on my worst eye (the left) which I had a DCR operation on and contributed to excessive dryness. The excessive dryness from the DCR surgery caused major evaporation, and thus overworked the meibomian glands and a few dropped out (that's my theory). So after nearly 18 yrs on fin and hardly any MG drop out I have decided to remain on it. But of course, I have taken action to address the lack of androgens the fin is causing to the lacrimal glands and MG's. So this is what I do...

Saturate my eyes with Androgens by using testosterone cream (applying it around the eyelids) and soon I'm obtaining a script for testosterone drops to be applied directly to the eye surface. I also use bioidentical testosterone.

I suggest you use topical Minoxidil with added Retin A and take herbal remedies such as green tea, anthocyanidins, etc. It will slow the hairloss down.

[MGD666]

DCR - you are luckier than I, in that your glands are in much better shape. I have been using the testosterone drops (compounded via Leiter's at 0.03%) now for a few months with some relief, but not quite the "cure" I was hoping for. What has your experience with the cream been, and where do you obtain it (and in what concentration)? Any side-effects you have noticed (skin?) where you have applied it topically?

My saw palmetto interest was mainly for prostate health, as opposed to hair loss. As far as minoxidil goes, when I used that, it dried out the hair I have, all around where I was applying it, something fierce, so I discontinued that a while back. I never really noticed any significant hair growth with it either. The only thing I use currently to combat hair loss, is a home-mix of castor-oil and emu oil, applied to the scalp 2x a week overnight.

I do drink green tea (and even use the chilled tea bags around the eyes afterwards)

Anthocyanidins?

[DCRdryeye]

I'm so glad you've experienced some relief with the testosterone drops. I'm hoping they will help me to some degree, not sure what strength I'll obtain yet but will request a higher strength. The testosterone cream I use is 3% (30mg) cream, Testosterone 30ml/ml. I apply a thick coat on lower and upper eyelids before bed then use the Onyix eyeshield from eyeco to sleep with to prevent it getting on the pillow, etc. It doesn't irritate my skin since I asked the compounding pharmacy not to use Propylene glycol and replace it with Jojoba oil (often used in Leiter's eyedrops). Often with dry eyes the eyelids become dry so the Testosterone cream has moisturized mine and feel nice when applying it. Benefits? not a great deal, perhaps a moderate benefit and I noticed my eyes were worse when I ran out of stock. I'm hoping for more benefit with the Testosterone drops.
Regarding Anthocyanidins, they are actually Oligomericprocyanidins (also known as Procyanidin) from sources like grape seeds or pine bark extract. Many hair loss products contain it. Here is a website that seems genuine: http://www.dslaboratories.com/esp/sp...oing-bald.html note the sentence"Only three topical compounds have clinical, peer-reviewed, published studies behind them to prove their efficacy in retaining and regrowing hair. These are minoxidil, Aminexil SP94, and procyanidin B-2".

I also found Minoxidil mixed with Retin A harsh on the scalp, but Minoxidil on it's own was fine. It won't regrow hair, but slow down hair loss. Keep up with the green tea, it's a miracle drink!!