For men...hormone replacement therapy for dry eye.

[Guest]

Thanks, did you get that checked through a blood test? And did your GP order it?

Blood test from an endocrinologist

[rogerg10]

Very interesting and glad it worked out for you. My dry eye MGD started slightly after I was diagnosed with a pituitary tumour which stops my body producing testosterone. I've ended up with extremely dry eyes and dry mouth. I'm on TRT (Enanthete) which has brought my energy back up to functional levels but my eyes and mouth haven't recovered. The endos don't understand it and say the two are categorically not linked (which I don't believe as I've spoken to several people in the pituitary foundation who have the same symptoms). As a result I've ended up having blood tests for Sjogrens as well as a lip biopsy that all came back negative.

I'm now seeing a professor in London who is confident he can make a difference but so far no joy. Currently I'm taking Ikervis for a month but I understand you need to take it for at least 3 months before you can decide if its working or not. Im also doing a hot compress each night and have tried Lipiflow which didn't make a difference.

[quattroboy]

I'm taking Ikervis for a month but I understand you need to take it for at least 3 months before you can decide if its working or not.

I've been quoted 6 to 8 weeks before I notice anything, might take up to 6 months to be fully effective.

Has anyone mentioned oral Pilocarpine to help with your mouth and eyes?

[Guest]

Very interesting and glad it worked out for you. My dry eye MGD started slightly after I was diagnosed with a pituitary tumour which stops my body producing testosterone. I've ended up with extremely dry eyes and dry mouth. I'm on TRT (Enanthete) which has brought my energy back up to functional levels but my eyes and mouth haven't recovered. The endos don't understand it and say the two are categorically not linked (which I don't believe as I've spoken to several people in the pituitary foundation who have the same symptoms). As a result I've ended up having blood tests for Sjogrens as well as a lip biopsy that all came back negative.

I'm now seeing a professor in London who is confident he can make a difference but so far no joy. Currently I'm taking Ikervis for a month but I understand you need to take it for at least 3 months before you can decide if its working or not. Im also doing a hot compress each night and have tried Lipiflow which didn't make a difference.

I'd say that my issues started after I stopped taking exogenous hormones as a bodybuilder. Honestly, I was still producing test, just under the reference range (mine 60 reference 72).

I belirve they're linked...man this is crazy to hear. Thanks for the story and I'm sorry this is happening to you.

[wakeupscreaming]

I had read about the doctor in L.A. who does the eyebright surgery, he was using testosterone for dry eye.
But I think it's just ******g the symptoms, and not actually curing what's causing the inflammation in the first place.
I had also read (going off memory) that gyms have a lot of bacteria (staph, etc) that can possibly affect the eyes. I recall watchng a youtube exercise video recently, and the guy was in the gym, and picking away at his eyelashes.

I have been on finasteride for years, to stop my hair loss in its tracks. It doesn't grow the hair back, but it does stop you from losing anymore.
I didn't think of a possible connection with my eye situation before.
I don't necessarily have dry eye, i have blepharitis, tearing, etc. I do have reduced meibomian glands -- i had the lipiview test.
I have other problems, but I'm convinced they are caused by bacteria, which throws the entire eye lubrication system out of whack.

If you read my posts I go into detail with my eye situation.
It's been been very frustrating for me, as I'm convinced the eye problems I have are contagious to others. I've had coworkers, friends and family come down with eye-infections, burning eyes, tearing eyes, redness, photophobia, red eyelid margins. And it's all "coincidence" when I'm working closely with someone.
but no doctors believe me.

[Guest]

I had read about the doctor in L.A. who does the eyebright surgery, he was using testosterone for dry eye.
But I think it's just ******g the symptoms, and not actually curing what's causing the inflammation in the first place.
I had also read (going off memory) that gyms have a lot of bacteria (staph, etc) that can possibly affect the eyes. I recall watchng a youtube exercise video recently, and the guy was in the gym, and picking away at his eyelashes.

I have been on finasteride for years, to stop my hair loss in its tracks. It doesn't grow the hair back, but it does stop you from losing anymore.
I didn't think of a possible connection with my eye situation before.
I don't necessarily have dry eye, i have blepharitis, tearing, etc. I do have reduced meibomian glands -- i had the lipiview test.
I have other problems, but I'm convinced they are caused by bacteria, which throws the entire eye lubrication system out of whack.

If you read my posts I go into detail with my eye situation.
It's been been very frustrating for me, as I'm convinced the eye problems I have are contagious to others. I've had coworkers, friends and family come down with eye-infections, burning eyes, tearing eyes, redness, photophobia, red eyelid margins. And it's all "coincidence" when I'm working closely with someone.
but no doctors believe me.

If you just start taking testosterone for no reason, then I'm sure it could mask symptoms. However, my testosterone was extremely low. Regardless of my eyes I needed the testosterone.

Now, how does testosterone help. The meibomium glands are androgen receptor mediated. If you're low on androgens, those glands will be sluggish. If your glands aren't moving the oil out, bacteria takes hold and things go down hill. Now, higher testosterone dampens the immune/inflammation response. Estrogen increases inflammation/immune response. That's why most people with sjogrens are women...most people with autoimmune issues in general are women. There's a hormonal link for sure.

i find it hard to believe anyone is catching your bacterial infections. I don't think I picked up staph from the gym. I sweat a lot, I mean, every training session I can wring out my shirt and hat into a glass. For years I would sweat like that and then after the workout I would sit at the gym for a few hours with dried sweat in my lids. That's how I think the gym/training effected my eyes. I personally don't believe anyone is catching your eye bacteria. It's not the bacteria that's so invasive...it's the way we use our eyes that allows the bacteria to take hold. The assumption is that staph on your skin, your normal flora, takes over the gland because of many factors...change in meibum, sleeping eyes open, incomplete blinks, staring at screens, poor lid hygiene, hormonal changes, diet, and much more I can't even list....all these things leave the glands exposed anrd the bacteria can infiltrate. If you don't produce many tears, they can't wash away the bacteria and it sits on your eye and again, infiltrates the glands. Even if you pressed your eye against someone else's I don't think they would catch this from you. That's my understanding anyway.

[wakeupscreaming]

If you just start taking testosterone for no reason, then I'm sure it could mask symptoms. However, my testosterone was extremely low. Regardless of my eyes I needed the testosterone.

Now, how does testosterone help. The meibomium glands are androgen receptor mediated. If you're low on androgens, those glands will be sluggish. If your glands aren't moving the oil out, bacteria takes hold and things go down hill. Now, higher testosterone dampens the immune/inflammation response. Estrogen increases inflammation/immune response. That's why most people with sjogrens are women...most people with autoimmune issues in general are women. There's a hormonal link for sure.

i find it hard to believe anyone is catching your bacterial infections. I don't think I picked up staph from the gym. I sweat a lot, I mean, every training session I can wring out my shirt and hat into a glass. For years I would sweat like that and then after the workout I would sit at the gym for a few hours with dried sweat in my lids. That's how I think the gym/training effected my eyes. I personally don't believe anyone is catching your eye bacteria. It's not the bacteria that's so invasive...it's the way we use our eyes that allows the bacteria to take hold. The assumption is that staph on your skin, your normal flora, takes over the gland because of many factors...change in meibum, sleeping eyes open, incomplete blinks, staring at screens, poor lid hygiene, hormonal changes, diet, and much more I can't even list....all these things leave the glands exposed anrd the bacteria can infiltrate. If you don't produce many tears, they can't wash away the bacteria and it sits on your eye and again, infiltrates the glands. Even if you pressed your eye against someone else's I don't think they would catch this from you. That's my understanding anyway.

Thank you for pointing something out.
I did not realize this, but I happen to have an unrelated heart-condition. And for the past year I have taken Spironolactone, which helps the body get rid of excess sodium in the body (lowers the blood pressure).
But, spiranolactone also effects hormones. BTW, it's actually one of the medications transgenders take. It certainly has a side-effect on testosterone, by decreasing it, as I've had a very low libido for the past year. I didn't make the connection between taking spiranolactone, lowered testosterone and my eye inflammation. My eye has been tearing this past year like never before, and it's been VERY intrusive, with chronic tearing and discharge constantly. And it's severity has been consistent with how long i've been taking the Spiranolactone.

Unfortunately, my Ophthalmologist did not make this connection, and I saw her 3 times this past year. She actually had me sent to an "Ear Nose and Throat" specialist, thinking it was some sort of plugged up sinus. (That's another story).


As for the contagious aspect, ummh, well I'm hoping more research and study is put into dry eye and bleph.
I have mentioned it to my doctor and to the Ophthalmologist, and they both said it's not contagious. In fact, my doctor went one step further, and told me if I mention my eye problem again, the next specialist appt. he makes for me, will be with a psychiatrist. (And that's also another story).

I would encourage you to read this:
https://www.dovepress.com/debsmdasha...d-article-OPTH

"Bacteria colonize the lid margin within a structure known as a biofilm. The biofilm allows for population densities that initiate quorum-sensing gene activation. These newly activated gene products consist of inflammatory virulence factors, such as exotoxins, cytolytic toxins, and super-antigens, which are then present for the rest of the patient’s life."

This is coming from fairly new research -- 2016. They site bacteria as the start of all the problems of dry-eye and inflammation and blepharitis.

But notice they don't specify WHICH bacteria are causing the problems?
There are over 10 million to 1 billion different species of bacteria.
And if it's bacteria, bacteria undoubtedly can be passed from one person to another. Read my 1st or 2nd post, for my entire lengthy story why I think it's contagious. I've had over 30 people around me come down with eye problems. One colleague I used to work with, even said she didn't have any eye problems until she started working with me. She had a red thick vein form in her sclera (the whites of the eyes) just off her pupil. (And I don't go around talking about my eye problems EVER.)

It makes me curious: I've heard some peoples health issues can be resolved with Fecal microbiota transplants, which takes the healthy microbiome of someone with no health issues, and you transfer that to someone with the issue. (Literally, by eating someone elses feces. lol.)
I'm wondering if the same could happen with eye inflammation. Bacteria can effect health, no doubt.

I'm possibly considering a career in microbiology because of it. I'd rather not spend 6 years of my life dedicated to it (on top of the expense of time and money), however. I've got better things to be doing. I'm an artist, photographer, designer and a music producer. But, when no one believes me, what else am I supposed to do? It just seems like no one is stepping up to the plate to get to the bottom of this.

[Guest]

Thank you for pointing something out.
I did not realize this, but I happen to have an unrelated heart-condition. And for the past year I have taken Spironolactone, which helps the body get rid of excess sodium in the body (lowers the blood pressure).
But, spiranolactone also effects hormones. BTW, it's actually one of the medications transgenders take. It certainly has a side-effect on testosterone, by decreasing it, as I've had a very low libido for the past year. I didn't make the connection between taking spiranolactone, lowered testosterone and my eye inflammation. My eye has been tearing this past year like never before, and it's been VERY intrusive, with chronic tearing and discharge constantly. And it's severity has been consistent with how long i've been taking the Spiranolactone.

Unfortunately, my Ophthalmologist did not make this connection, and I saw her 3 times this past year. She actually had me sent to an "Ear Nose and Throat" specialist, thinking it was some sort of plugged up sinus. (That's another story).


As for the contagious aspect, ummh, well I'm hoping more research and study is put into dry eye and bleph.
I have mentioned it to my doctor and to the Ophthalmologist, and they both said it's not contagious. In fact, my doctor went one step further, and told me if I mention my eye problem again, the next specialist appt. he makes for me, will be with a psychiatrist. (And that's also another story).

I would encourage you to read this:
https://www.dovepress.com/debsmdasha...d-article-OPTH

"Bacteria colonize the lid margin within a structure known as a biofilm. The biofilm allows for population densities that initiate quorum-sensing gene activation. These newly activated gene products consist of inflammatory virulence factors, such as exotoxins, cytolytic toxins, and super-antigens, which are then present for the rest of the patient’s life."

This is coming from fairly new research -- 2016. They site bacteria as the start of all the problems of dry-eye and inflammation and blepharitis.

But notice they don't specify WHICH bacteria are causing the problems?
There are over 10 million to 1 billion different species of bacteria.
And if it's bacteria, bacteria undoubtedly can be passed from one person to another. Read my 1st or 2nd post, for my entire lengthy story why I think it's contagious. I've had over 30 people around me come down with eye problems. One colleague I used to work with, even said she didn't have any eye problems until she started working with me. She had a red thick vein form in her sclera (the whites of the eyes) just off her pupil. (And I don't go around talking about my eye problems EVER.)

It makes me curious: I've heard some peoples health issues can be resolved with Fecal microbiota transplants, which takes the healthy microbiome of someone with no health issues, and you transfer that to someone with the issue. (Literally, by eating someone elses feces. lol.)
I'm wondering if the same could happen with eye inflammation. Bacteria can effect health, no doubt.

I'm possibly considering a career in microbiology because of it. I'd rather not spend 6 years of my life dedicated to it (on top of the expense of time and money), however. I've got better things to be doing. I'm an artist, photographer, designer and a music producer. But, when no one believes me, what else am I supposed to do? It just seems like no one is stepping up to the plate to get to the bottom of this.

Let me just address the bacteria thing. The idea is that the normal staph that make up the microbiome of your skin are what’s supposedly infecting the gland. It’s not a new bacteria or something that under normal circumstances would ever cause a problem. But once there is a disruption, inflammation, etc. the bacteria can now colonize the MGs when normally they couldn’t. Because the natural defenses are no longer there. That’s the proposed idea, it makes sense, who knows if it’s correct. So I’m curious where you work...if it’s the environment causing you and the group all these issues.

I woyld say say that any doctor dismissing you and asking you to see a psych needs to be left alone. How can someone treat you if they don’t believe your problem? It took me 8 doctors to get an answer. Why? Because I needed a specialist in dry eye. Not an ophthalmologist, not a corneal specialist, a dry eye specialist. I found one at UIC in Chicago. He diagnosed me in 30 minutes, 5 months later, I’m almost normal. I believe you have a problem that needs serious medical attention. If you can afford it, go get it. If you need help with a doctor, I can help you out.

Now im not sure if testosterone is your problem, but I think you have sone clues that might suggest that is the case. Based on what you’re saying the issue definitely sounds like the eyelid. I’m assuming you had some extreme, deeply sore eyes and the doctor assumed it was your sinus right? I had that happen. Went to the ENT doc and found out I had a deviated septum. Which was actually a huge discovery. But there was nothing wrong with the sinus. It was the eyelid in my right eye just being way more inflamed and damaged.

So I think you need another opinion personally. I hope you find some answers soon because intrusive is such a kind word for what’s happening right now.

[Milo007]

Yeah, finasteride nlocks DHT which is extremely androgenic. That's why DHT makes you lose your hair.

free and total testosterone will tell you if you're deficient.

Did you experience hair loss when you were taking steroids for bodybuilding?

[wakeupscreaming]

Let me just address the bacteria thing. The idea is that the normal staph that make up the microbiome of your skin are what’s supposedly infecting the gland. It’s not a new bacteria or something that under normal circumstances would ever cause a problem. But once there is a disruption, inflammation, etc. the bacteria can now colonize the MGs when normally they couldn’t. Because the natural defenses are no longer there. That’s the proposed idea, it makes sense, who knows if it’s correct. So I’m curious where you work...if it’s the environment causing you and the group all these issues.

I woyld say say that any doctor dismissing you and asking you to see a psych needs to be left alone. How can someone treat you if they don’t believe your problem? It took me 8 doctors to get an answer. Why? Because I needed a specialist in dry eye. Not an ophthalmologist, not a corneal specialist, a dry eye specialist. I found one at UIC in Chicago. He diagnosed me in 30 minutes, 5 months later, I’m almost normal. I believe you have a problem that needs serious medical attention. If you can afford it, go get it. If you need help with a doctor, I can help you out.

Now im not sure if testosterone is your problem, but I think you have sone clues that might suggest that is the case. Based on what you’re saying the issue definitely sounds like the eyelid. I’m assuming you had some extreme, deeply sore eyes and the doctor assumed it was your sinus right? I had that happen. Went to the ENT doc and found out I had a deviated septum. Which was actually a huge discovery. But there was nothing wrong with the sinus. It was the eyelid in my right eye just being way more inflamed and damaged.

So I think you need another opinion personally. I hope you find some answers soon because intrusive is such a kind word for what’s happening right now.

Hi, thanks for the reply.
I've worked in graphics and gaming companies. These are office/studio environments. Pretty clean, with little pollution.

If you really want to know, this doesn't just effect coworkers, it seems to effect friends and family as well -- anyone that i'm around.
If you want some examples:
1. I visited Vancouver for a week, and stayed with a friend on his couch, as it's cheaper than a hotel.
Each morning i checked my email on his computer. He was actually on disability, and was a homebody. Three days in, I see his head cranked back, using antibiotic eyedrops, and he tells me he has an eye-infection.
2. I worked with a woman on a project at work for a week -- she was a client that came into our office for about 4-5 hours a day, working with me only 2-3 feet away. By the 3rd day, she told me she woke up with her eyelashes stuck together "like she was sick".
3. I worked on a clients computer for less than an hour at his house, and the next time I see him, he told me he had an infection of his eye. He also happened to be a bodybuilder/exotic dancer -- the last person I'd see getting sick.
4. as i mentioned in my previous post, a colleague I used to work with in the same larger cubicle came down with a red thick vein off her pupil in the whites of her eye. She told me she didn't have problems with her eyes until she started working with me. This was years ago, and I tried getting in touch with her, because I believe she's only 1 or 2 people that have also made the connection, but she must have gotten married and changed her name, or moved, or who knows.

I have more than 30 examples of these. And there could be more instances I'm unaware of.

Of course, it could all be coincidence. But how many times does it have to happen before it's actually a pattern?

So many diseases are contagious -- herpes, mononucleosis, the cold, flu, warts, athletes foot, etc, and all are contagious. It's not science-fiction. It's really not that shocking that something contagious could be causing eye-problems. It doesn't kill you. But it's enough to effect quality of life.

I'm more curious why people are so quick to tell me it can't be contagious, when there is no science to refute it.
The eye issues include: eye infection, tearing of the eye, burning eyes, neovascularization in the sclera (thicker red veins in the whites of the eye that are permanent) and photophobia (sensitivity to the sun).


Last year, I mentioned my eye issues to my doctor, who made an appt with the Ophthalmologist. As i've mentioned, she wasn't able to help me much. She did prescribe Restasis. I tried restasis, but it is expensive, so I didn't carry on with it. And i'm not sure it would have helped anyways, as I was on Spiranolactone, which i've identified as being one of the big culprits.
Then just this past summer, I asked my doctor if I could chat with a microbiologist, or epidemiologist -- someone who's specialty is contagious diseases. 2 months go by, I hear nothing back. I make an appt with him. And that's where he tells me they don't take out-patients, and recommends the next appt he makes for me will be with a psyche.

Unfortunately, i live in my smaller hometown located in Alberta, Canada. I looked into other doctors accepting new patients, and the half-dozen of them sound worse than my current doctor.

I was unaware there are "dry eye specialists"? Is that just in the U.S.? My ophthalmologist certainly didn't mention anything about this. I always thought it was a waste of time going to see her, cuz her assistants were always doing pressure tests, and vision tests on me, when that's clearly the reason why i'm NOT there.

Yeah, the tearing I've had has been pretty intrusive. At times, it's almost like i'm crying. lol. The tears are simply not draining as they should.
And my eyes feel totally...what's the word, not gunky, but heavy all the time. I manage it with hot splashes of water every now and then.
I had my tear-duct tested to see if they are plugged twice before by different opthhamologists before, and it was always negative. This last Optho did the same thing, and the saline solution was just dribbling out of my eye. I think she put it in wrong. Yeah, smaller towns suck for specialists.

In an older post, I did mention I took minocycline for 2 months. I actually got the idea off these forum boards. When I started it, for the first time in almost 20 years, I didn't have that heavy eyelid feeling. I didn't feel the need to constantly wash my face. It was fantastic for 2 months. I actually thought I was cured. Then i stopped the minocycline, and not even 2 or 3 days later, it was heavy inflamed eyelids all over again.

It's inflammation. That I know for sure.
Caused by what...who knows.

[Guest]

Hi, thanks for the reply.
I've worked in graphics and gaming companies. These are office/studio environments. Pretty clean, with little pollution.

If you really want to know, this doesn't just effect coworkers, it seems to effect friends and family as well -- anyone that i'm around.
If you want some examples:
1. I visited Vancouver for a week, and stayed with a friend on his couch, as it's cheaper than a hotel.
Each morning i checked my email on his computer. He was actually on disability, and was a homebody. Three days in, I see his head cranked back, using antibiotic eyedrops, and he tells me he has an eye-infection.
2. I worked with a woman on a project at work for a week -- she was a client that came into our office for about 4-5 hours a day, working with me only 2-3 feet away. By the 3rd day, she told me she woke up with her eyelashes stuck together "like she was sick".
3. I worked on a clients computer for less than an hour at his house, and the next time I see him, he told me he had an infection of his eye. He also happened to be a bodybuilder/exotic dancer -- the last person I'd see getting sick.
4. as i mentioned in my previous post, a colleague I used to work with in the same larger cubicle came down with a red thick vein off her pupil in the whites of her eye. She told me she didn't have problems with her eyes until she started working with me. This was years ago, and I tried getting in touch with her, because I believe she's only 1 or 2 people that have also made the connection, but she must have gotten married and changed her name, or moved, or who knows.

I have more than 30 examples of these. And there could be more instances I'm unaware of.

Of course, it could all be coincidence. But how many times does it have to happen before it's actually a pattern?

So many diseases are contagious -- herpes, mononucleosis, the cold, flu, warts, athletes foot, etc, and all are contagious. It's not science-fiction. It's really not that shocking that something contagious could be causing eye-problems. It doesn't kill you. But it's enough to effect quality of life.

I'm more curious why people are so quick to tell me it can't be contagious, when there is no science to refute it.
The eye issues include: eye infection, tearing of the eye, burning eyes, neovascularization in the sclera (thicker red veins in the whites of the eye that are permanent) and photophobia (sensitivity to the sun).


Last year, I mentioned my eye issues to my doctor, who made an appt with the Ophthalmologist. As i've mentioned, she wasn't able to help me much. She did prescribe Restasis. I tried restasis, but it is expensive, so I didn't carry on with it. And i'm not sure it would have helped anyways, as I was on Spiranolactone, which i've identified as being one of the big culprits.
Then just this past summer, I asked my doctor if I could chat with a microbiologist, or epidemiologist -- someone who's specialty is contagious diseases. 2 months go by, I hear nothing back. I make an appt with him. And that's where he tells me they don't take out-patients, and recommends the next appt he makes for me will be with a psyche.

Unfortunately, i live in my smaller hometown located in Alberta, Canada. I looked into other doctors accepting new patients, and the half-dozen of them sound worse than my current doctor.

I was unaware there are "dry eye specialists"? Is that just in the U.S.? My ophthalmologist certainly didn't mention anything about this. I always thought it was a waste of time going to see her, cuz her assistants were always doing pressure tests, and vision tests on me, when that's clearly the reason why i'm NOT there.

Yeah, the tearing I've had has been pretty intrusive. At times, it's almost like i'm crying. lol. The tears are simply not draining as they should.
And my eyes feel totally...what's the word, not gunky, but heavy all the time. I manage it with hot splashes of water every now and then.
I had my tear-duct tested to see if they are plugged twice before by different opthhamologists before, and it was always negative. This last Optho did the same thing, and the saline solution was just dribbling out of my eye. I think she put it in wrong. Yeah, smaller towns suck for specialists.

In an older post, I did mention I took minocycline for 2 months. I actually got the idea off these forum boards. When I started it, for the first time in almost 20 years, I didn't have that heavy eyelid feeling. I didn't feel the need to constantly wash my face. It was fantastic for 2 months. I actually thought I was cured. Then i stopped the minocycline, and not even 2 or 3 days later, it was heavy inflamed eyelids all over again.

It's inflammation. That I know for sure.
Caused by what...who knows.

Well, let me say this and it’s not to be a downer. I don’t think you’ll know if the spirolactone is causing the issue until you stop taking it and treat the testosterone deficiency. If that sends you back to your old state of not so bad eyes, I’d say you’re 100% correct. Also, it could be contagious, you’re right. But I don’t think the evidence you presented has proven that. I agree that from your perspective, this seems insane. But let me say, as an ex bodybuilder, it’s not surprising that guy got pink eye lol. Especially as an exotic dancer. He puts his face in a woman’s crotch, boom. The people in your office, work in computers all day so I can’t count them. The guy on disability, I’m assuming he’s sick but yes that’s weird. But does this stuff really imply causation. It doesn’t for me...and again, I’m not trying to be a Debbie downer, I just want to be honest so we can focus on your problem.

Your issue with the sinus sounds very much like me. I think yes, you clearly have MMP9 inflammation if the minocycline worked. Doxy has been proven safe In the literature for rosacea patients at doses of 200mg a day for up to a year. I think you should just take it forever. Start high and then taper into a dose that’s effective and lower than 200mg. I think it’s safe, I’ve been on 200mg for a while and like you said, it changed my life. I won’t stop taking it. I’ll eventuakly lower my dose because we’re attacjing my problem now thank god. But I hated the idea of being on it, but it will help so why fight it? So I say take it, at least until you get a real diagnosis.

Which leads to dry eye specialists. All the good ones I know are in the United States. The guy at UIC that diagnosed me did a fantastically thorough job. If anyone would have just checked for this eyelid issue, I wouldn’t have suffered for a year. Anyway, they did A LOT of testing. They also track my immune markers to make sure treatment is working. They are just giving people restasis and calling it a day. They’re using medicine and then taking the diagnostics to determine of the treatment is effective. That’s the doctor you need. Have you ever had a TBUT, lissimine green stain, inflammadry, osmolarity, LLT, tear meniscus height, lipiview, schirmers, immune marker washes? If you haven’t had these tests, most likely the doctor treating you has no idea what they’re doing. Even with the testing there’s no guarantee...but without it, you’re throwing darts at a wall and praying. You need a specialist, you may need to leave your country.

Now im bipolar, so I get the mental illness thing. I’m not saying your mentally ill, but I’m not taken seriously because people think I’m exaggerating my symptoms. It was very clear after I started my treatment at UIC, this was not an exaggeration. So I think sometimes trying to get answers, we get in our own way. Coupled with the fact that the doctor has no idea how to help you, it’s easier for them to say you’re crazy. Because you are crazy, you’re experiencing constant annoying pain. I get it. Most people cannot understand it, even the doctors. So that’s what you’re dealing with as you’re finding out.

Ill give you you my quick story. I felt just like you, probably saying some wild shit. I thought I had nerve damage, I though I had thyroid disease, I thought I had 20 things and I had 20 theories no how it happened and it was all wrong. I could have NEVER figured this out in my own. So...I have floppy eyelid syndrome. I’ve had it for years now that I look back. Once we treated the condition, I finally got better. But this disease presents as advanced MGD, but if you treat it like that, you get no relief. I can attest to that being true. So my point is that I think you just need to find the root cause. Could be blepharospasm, lagopthalmos, floppy eyelid, etc. but you need a solid diagnosis to direct treatment.

So you’ve had this for 20 years? May I ask, do you snore? Are you overweight? Do you sleep on your side/stomach? Do your eyes hurt worse in the morning or as the day progresss at night?

Lets try try to work this out. Let’s try our best to barrow this down.

[sdeneve]

I have been following your post and am also suffering. My DED started Aug 26th 2018, the day of the smoke from the BC forest fires. I am also in Alberta, Canada.

I have dabbled with drugs in the bodybuilding scene as-well. I'm almost certain this has to do with a hormone in-balance. I know my body really well and I've always had a problem with inflammation in body due to old injuries.

I'm complete lost, starting a world of depression & anxiety. I feel like doctors have no Idea what to do or how to diagnose me.

I've read you've seen "dry eye specialists" Where does a person find such a specialist???!!

[Guest]

I have been following your post and am also suffering. My DED started Aug 26th 2018, the day of the smoke from the BC forest fires. I am also in Alberta, Canada.

I have dabbled with drugs in the bodybuilding scene as-well. I'm almost certain this has to do with a hormone in-balance. I know my body really well and I've always had a problem with inflammation in body due to old injuries.

I'm complete lost, starting a world of depression & anxiety. I feel like doctors have no Idea what to do or how to diagnose me.

I've read you've seen "dry eye specialists" Where does a person find such a specialist???!!

I’m sorry you’re having a rough time. May I ask, what drugs did you use and for how long? Is your natural testosterone shut down? Meaning, do you have bloodwork showing low test? What’s your age?

I coukd be hormonal, could be 1 of 100 things. I thought mine was hormonal, I know now that was not the case. But you have to start somewhere.

As as far as dry eye specialist, I have no idea about Canada. But I’m the US, we have some great specialists. I lucked into mine..just finally found him out of luck I suppose. But now, I would know to research on google for someone that has the diagnostics to determine my problem. I initially went to local doctors and none of them performed any tests to determine what was wrong. This doctor is tracking EVERYTHING he’s really good. I could give you some names of US doctors but now sure I could help in Canada. But you definitely need to see, specifically someone that treats dry eye.

[sdeneve]

I’m sorry you’re having a rough time. May I ask, what drugs did you use and for how long? Is your natural testosterone shut down? Meaning, do you have bloodwork showing low test? What’s your age?

I coukd be hormonal, could be 1 of 100 things. I thought mine was hormonal, I know now that was not the case. But you have to start somewhere.

As as far as dry eye specialist, I have no idea about Canada. But I’m the US, we have some great specialists. I lucked into mine..just finally found him out of luck I suppose. But now, I would know to research on google for someone that has the diagnostics to determine my problem. I initially went to local doctors and none of them performed any tests to determine what was wrong. This doctor is tracking EVERYTHING he’s really good. I could give you some names of US doctors but now sure I could help in Canada. But you definitely need to see, specifically someone that treats dry eye.

I was using Sarms - MK677 and MK2866. I used these off and on for about 2 years.

I'm 29 years old and I will be going for bloodwork soon to find out. Can you tell me your doctors name in the US? I'm in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. If you could help me, I'd be forever grateful.

[Guest]

I was using Sarms - MK677 and MK2866. I used these off and on for about 2 years.

I'm 29 years old and I will be going for bloodwork soon to find out. Can you tell me your doctors name in the US? I'm in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. If you could help me, I'd be forever grateful.

What’s going on with you, that will better help me give you a suggestion?