Lid scrubs

[Ben]

anyone out there.

Over the past few months my eye lids have been very red and sore, eyes have been dry and gritty and just recently, noticed a few little dry bits at the base of my lashes. Doctors and eye infirmary have oferred visco tears as a solution, however this does not seem to be working.

Therefore I have just recently started using some sterile lid scrubs. The instructions say to rub the material together to get a foam, then rub over the upper and lower lid, then run accross the lashes from the nose side. This is all well and good, foaming is not a problem, and wiping accross the upper and lower lid seems pretty straight forward too, however going accross the lashes is to say the least a bit difficult without getting some of the foam actually in my eyes.

Has anyone else experienced this ?
Is getting a bit of foam in the eye normal ?
Although i have only been using them for a couple of days i did expect a slight relief in the redness and general comfort of my eyes. However they seem to be slightly more sore, although this does fade after an hour or so.
Again is this quite normal, as in they may get worse before they better ?

Sorry for all the questions, i am a bit of a novice at all this and worried i am doing more harm then good.

cheers, any advice gratefully recieved.
ben

apologies i do not know how to get this in the open forum, i do not have permissions.

[Cindy]

Hi Ben,

It can take a week or two before you feel significant relief and the problem starts clearing up. I use a sterile lid scrub when I am travelling. Ocusoft lid scrubs. I find it more irritating than just a Q-tip (cotton bud ) soaked in sterile, non-preserved saline solution. Some people use Johnson's baby shampoo but that bothered me too.

I've read that the use of baby shampoo (and probably the foaming lid scrub, I should think) leaves behind a detergent film in the eye. My doc told me he could see the residue in my eyes. So I switched to saline. However, a lot of people use sterile scrubs and baby shampoo and do great with it.

[calvous]

Sterile Scrubs

Cindy,
I do the baby shampoo thing. Where can I get the sterile eye scrubs that you referred to?
Thanks,
Cal

[Guest]

Fyi

Hi Cal,

Just wanted to mention that Cindy (along with Rebecca) is out of town for a few days, so she might not respond right away.

[Lucy]

Eye-Scrub

I do the baby shampoo thing. Where can I get the sterile eye scrubs that you referred to?

Not Cindy, but she won't mind me telling you that you can buy the scrubs in a drug store or a department store. They would be with the eye care stuff. The Eye-Scrub that I have right now is Ciba-Vision and are marketed as "sterile make up remover pads." They come 30 to a box at $8.99, so they are expensive. Each one is individually wrapped. The baby shampoo is much more economical. I use the scrubs because I'm fo lazy to mess the cotton and shampoo routine.

As Cindy said, there is also the Ocusoft brand. I just happen to have the others available and can just read off the box.

Lucy

[Ben]

Hi Ben,

I use a sterile lid scrub when I am travelling. Ocusoft lid scrubs. I find it more irritating than just a Q-tip (cotton bud ) soaked in sterile, non-preserved saline solution. Some people use Johnson's baby shampoo but that bothered me too.

I've read that the use of baby shampoo (and probably the foaming lid scrub, I should think) leaves behind a detergent film in the eye. My doc told me he could see the residue in my eyes. So I switched to saline. .

Hi Cindy

Just got some sterile non preserved saline solution. Daft question here but.. as it's in a squirty container did you simply squirt a bit on the buds and then scrub away?, or do you use something else ? Slightly concerned if i use just anything to dip me bud into, i may be doing a bad thing. do i need to use a sterilised container to put the liquid into ?

Naive questions from a naive bud user/eye scruberer.

cheers

ben

[Cindy]

When you say bud-wiser...

...you've said it all. (Sorry, couldn't resist the old Budweiser beer jingle.)

Ben, I drip or squirt the saline directly on the cottony part of the bud to saturate it. I am careful not to touch the tip of the applicator to the bud (even I have standards). Then gently scrub.

Your bud,
Cindy

[dianat]

Hopefully "demodexters" don't like saline or buds/tips.

[jp2084]

Lid Scrubs Not necessary for MGD?

I found this on the Review for Optometry. I've been doing the lid scrubs, but I have MGD and think that this might exacerbate the tear film. I think it's probably impossible not to get some of the soap in your eyes.

"Lid scrubs, though, are not as useful. One study showed that MGD actually results in saponification—that is, the creation of detergent—within the tear film, due to the enhanced formation of free fatty acids and inflammation.5 The addition of more detergent to an already unstable ocular surface only compromises the tear film further and may contribute to poor patient compliance.1,5 Therefore, it is probably best to refrain from lid scrub therapy when managing MGD."

[Cindy]

The docs at the Wellness Workshops gave a thumbs down to baby shampoo lid scrubs. Pre-moistened lid scrubs like OcuSoft were o.k. For MGD the most important thing is warm compresses and using a compress that will stay warm for at least 5 minutes. The rice baggy compress (a handful of uncooked rice tied in the toe of a knee-hi stocking is what I use) works great. A warm washcloth not so much. The washcloth cools down too fast.

[mike838]

Cindy what did the dr at the workshop have to say about mgd and treatment other then that? I was not there but would be interested to hear wat anyone else learned there. I wish I could have been there.

[Cindy]

Originally posted by Mike:

Cindy what did the dr at the workshop have to say about mgd and treatment other then that?

Lots. I hope we will do a really thorough job relating what the docs had to say in the Wellness Workshops forum. But..I know how hard it is to wait for this stuff. So here are the highlights of Dr. Brown's presentation: The Lowly Lipid. My friends, the meibomian glands...

1. Meibomian Gland function: Complex lipids; Lipids seep into tear film and form outer layer. Blinking = pumping oil out.

2. When MG (Meibomian Glands) are bad neighbors: a)Poor lipid quality - non-liquid at body temperature, clogging, Don't do their job in tear film. b) Inviting rough friends: great growth medium for skin bacteria, Worsens lipid quality, Generates toxic metabolic by-products, "bacteria poop" (yep, bacteria poop. Bacteria has to poop too).

Sounds like a big, fat mess doesn't it? Well it is. The above in #2 constitutes a diseased MG.

Blah, blah, blah. SO....What do you do about it???
1. Effective hot compresses. Ditch the warm washcloth. It's not warm enough for long enough. Nuke a rice baggy.

2. Expression (squeezing/pushing) to get the oil moving and squeeze the thick, built-up crud out. This is easier to do on the lower lids.

3. Flaxseed oil. Carlsons Salmon oil. Some kind of high quality Omega-3 oil.

4. Improved diet. Yay!!!! Junk in = junk out.

Other treatments: prescription therapy. Antibiotics + steroid combo. Oral anti-biotic.

That's all the quicky info for now.

[jcorbett]

Cindy - why the thumbs down for baby shampoo lids scrubs? I've been doing them for two years, morning and night. I've seen it recommended many times.

[Rebecca Petris]

There are concerns about baby shampoo being too harsh on an already compromised tear film. They reported seeing patients get worse when using baby shampoo this way regularly. Additionally, scrubbing too much was considered to cause additional irritation in people like us with sensitive eyes.

Personally I regularly wipe my lid margins with a Q-tip dipped in Unisol (unpreserved saline) as a gentle non-irritating lid hygiene routine.

[mike838]

Cindy did I meantion you guys are great? Thanks for the info