experimenting

[madarka]

hi i am more than 2years post lasik and having severely dry burning eyes.the first year after lasik i felt fine but problems started after 1 year.i tried everything:restasis all kinds of drops steroids ointments plugs lid scrubs omega 3supplements.i have read that excessive or prolonged use of artificial tears can actually discrupt the natural production of tears and further aggravate condition.i think i was using drops even though i felt fine and that is how i developed my problem i gradually washed out my natural tears.i decided not use any drops at all.2months no drops still feel the same-no better not worse.any idea on my theory?thank you

[stella]

too many artificial tears

My sympathies
I was told by an ophthalmologist that I could use as much occular lubricant as i wanted so long as it was preservative free.He said it would in no way interfere with my own tear production
However i notice quite a few people in this chat room think too many artificial tears/occular lubricants make them worse
personally I leave well alone during good periods - then during bad I use viscous stuff that lasts longer like celluvisc
ONLY if i have not produced my own sucessfully
How do i try to produce my own ? First i squeeze my lids sideways top and bottom (being careful to pull the lids off the eyes)-often that will produce some oil
note - as IanP,s occular surface specialist told him- dont overdo this as you need to leave some oil in the glands
second- I start yawning -Its hard to start and a bit embarrasing in company but once you get going you should produce your own tears
This I hope will stop the mechanism from being lazy
Hope this helps
Stella
PS AT NIGHT LAST THING- I always do the hot (in my case steam) application + eyelids with baby shampoo(very very diluted)then a good massage followed by much celluvisc and a hypoallergic cream to the lids and surrounding eye area(i never let the cream get on my eye lashes - scared of allergy + blocking glands )

[Rebecca Petris]

That's a tough question... with the answer sometimes simply hidden in our individuality somewhere. All dry eye is not equal.

On the one hand, I believe there is a role for 'preventive' dry eye treatment, including lubrication, for those with a chronic condition. We sure get a lot of reports here from people who felt better, stopped doing whatever they normally do to their eyes, and in a couple of days started paying for it bigtime.

On the other hand, we also get a lot of reports from people for whom over-lubricating was clearly exacerbating the problem. In the medical world there are conflicting views on this - no clear consensus. "Lubricant as often as you want" is one view. I don't personally subscribe to it - I think that getting a really effective lubricant that doesn't have to be used frequently makes more sense. But that's just my opinion and I acknowledge that there are people here who seem to keep things under control only if they are lubricating very frequently.

[MJ]

any idea on my theory?thank you

Hi madarka!

After my LASIK, seven years ago, I started using eye drops. I think I went from Bion Tears to Thera Tears with a whole lot of different brands inbetween. Nothing really worked, except for the minute or so that it was on my eye and felt temporarily cool and good. The burning got so bad that I started using the Thera Tears like every hour. I honestly think I turned into an eye drop junkie. I began to notice that even that temporary good feeling when the tears hit your eyes went away and instead the drops would burn on impact. My eyelids began to stick to my eyes when I woke up during the nights and in the mornings. At the same time I happened to read an article about people who were addicted to nose spray and how the nose spray actually made things worse requiring them to use more and more. They described it as a rebound situation. Well I knew it probably wasn't the same exact situation with eyes but the article did put the bug in my head to try the desperate experiment of stopping cold turkey to see what would happen. I just told myself ahead of time that I would have to stick with my experiment long enough to see if it really worked or not. (I should add that I had already given up on the night goops that my doctor would give me. I gave them each a good try but my experience showed that they made my eyes feel worse and just weren't for me.) So, I quit using Thera Tears. Period.

Well, all I can say is that after stopping cold turkey I still had dry eyes afterwards but they felt a whole lot better than when I was using the eye drops every hour. So, I gave up on drops. I "toughed it out" so to speak and the burning became my "normal".

Then I began to worry if I could be hurting the surface of my eyes in the long term because I wasn't lubricating them at all and they were obviously dry. That's when on another board I contacted Dr. Holly and he was kind enough to send me back a long and insightful letter explaining everything to me. I no longer have my correspondance with him or I would gladly send you his letters. Anyway, he encouraged me to take care of my eyes and I started using his drops. I didn't expect them to make any difference in my burning eyes, as nothing else had, I was only going to take them for the specific reason of taking care of my eye surface for the long term.

I began taking them consistently and after awhile my burning went away. I was amazed as I was not expecting that to happen. And it went away, not with overuse, but with putting them in only morning and night. My eyes felt the best they ever had since LASIK. Eventually, my eyes felt so much better that I got lazy and stopped using them. Then I had an accident this summer and the medication I'm on makes my eyes dry and burning again. The first thing I did was start taking Dr. Holly's drops consistently morning and night.

The other thing I noticed this time after about six months of continuous use was that I wasn't reaching for my sunglasses all the time or turning everyone's lights out when I walked into their homes.

I hope this helps in some way.

mj

[madarka]

depressed

hi everybody
i really want to thank you for such a quick response.i guess i am not alone with my pain.i don't even know whether to blame lasik or overusing drops for such a long time but it became my neverending nightmare.i used to read a lot run outside with my dog ride a bike trying out new eye makeup.simply things that i enjoyed.maybe i will get used to the pain and neverending discomfort but right now i am so depressed and sad especially about the thought that dry eye can not be cured just treated is killing me.my sister is suggesting me to try out acupuncture before starting serum drops.acupuncture works for some but not for everybody.i don't know whether to try it out or it is stupid.i have read so many articles and web sites and tried all kinds of treatments,i just feel exhausted and dissapointed.it seems like ongoing battle for my every single day.my friends don't understand me and are telling me i am being dramatic,but it is truly bothering that much.i want relief so badly it can't be described in words.sad madarka

[sabine]

to mj

Hoi,

Dokter Holly is indeed wonderfull, I 've been in contact with him a few years ago and he send me a bottle of Dwell to try. At that time my situation was so severe (could'nt see anymore of dryness) that everything I tried hurted.
Now after 4 plugs my situtation is stable and I would like to try dwelle again.
Is there anyway I could order dwelle? I am from begium (europe)


If doctor Holly is reading on the board, I would like to thank you for all the things you do for dry eye people. Because it's one of the most devastating thing you can image. And I can compare with other things!!! And he is a doctor who even wants to correspond/talk with a patient. Here it is impossible, all doctors behave like they are above other people.

Sabine

[MJ]

To Sabine

Sabine,
If you look to the very top of the screen on this board there is a blue shaped tear that says "The Dry Eye Shop". Click on that and it will take you to a link where you can find all of Dr. Holly's drops for purchase.

mj

[Rebecca Petris]

Madarka,

I don't know if it helps to know this but depression and anxiety are very, very common problems amongst people with chronic dry eye especially in the first year or so that the pain and impact on life really gets going. You might want to look at this article on our site which discusses some of the reasons for this, or the "Feel their eyes" section of this article on LaserMyEye which is written for friends and family of people with complications (including dryness) after lasik. You are NOT being dramatic. There are very valid reasons for the frustration and exhaustion you're going through... but at the same time, things WILL get better. You can get the eyes under better control in time but also with time you will adjust to as a person and it won't seem as overwhelming.

As regards acupuncture: I certainly wouldn't discourage anybody from trying this, but just in the interests of expectations-setting:

I have sort of a mental ranking of dry eye treatments, products and pain management methods, based on posts & conversations with so many people over the years. The categories are something like "Things that help a lot of people a lot", "Things that help a lot of people a little", "Things that help a few people a lot", "Things that help a few people a little and fewer people a lot", and "Things that help a few people a little at best". Thus far, acupuncture has remained squarely in that last category for me, based purely on the limited anecdotal feedback. There may be people out there who have had more benefit though - if so I hope we hear from them. Also, I'm only talking about impact on EYES directly... If it helps you feel better overall, it's definitely worth it!

Sabine,

Sending you a PM.

[MJ]

To madarka

i want relief so badly it can't be described in words.sad madarka

((( ((( ((( madarka ))) ))) ))) I'm sending you this online hug. Depression and stress can take away from your overall health which in turn can not be good for your eyes.

First, let people know that what you have is not just "you being dramatic" but a real health problem.

Second, take care of your whole body right now ... you have to treat yourself physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually or the depression and stress will not only make your eyes worse but become a problem in and of themselves.

Try the acupuncture if you think it will help. It's a positive step. And positive steps are good ones to take. Even if it would turn out that it didn't help your dry eyes it might help your overall feeling. It might relax your body which has been in a state of stress and discomfort.

Treat yourself nutritionally. When we feel stressed and depressed we tend to eat junk food and comfort food and it causes our health to spiral downward at a time when we need to be building ourselves up.

Find something joyful in each day to pick up your spirits. Stress and depression zap our energy bigtime. Joy is a fuel that fills us up. At a time like this it becomes more important than ever to restore your emotional energy. It is when we care for ourselves that our body starts caring for itself. I'm not saying that that alone will cure your eyes, but it will help you overall.

You might want to get a sample pack of the dwelle, dakrina and nutratears if you have not tried it. It really is worth a try.

But at this point, treat not only your eyes but your depression. Take care of YOU. Remember that you are a precious person.

mj

[madarka]

to mj

hi mj i would like to ask in what way are dr.holly drops -dwell,daktrina and nutratears different from thera tears which i stopped using after many months.they were preser.free but didnt bring me desired relief and they didn't soothe my sore eyeballs.i am in pain every day and thinking about starting serum drops.i have read how u got so much better with dr.holly's drops that u actually stopped using them and if not the accident you would be drop free right?madarka from texas

[MJ]

i have read how u got so much better with dr.holly's drops that u actually stopped using them and if not the accident you would be drop free right?

Although I went drop free for a long while I do not recommend it if you have chronic dry eyes. And at an eye dr. appt. during that period of abstinence I had erosions which I did not feel. So, I believe it is better to keep your eyes "well maintained" with drops if you have any kind of problem.

I use Nutratear when all is well. When my eyes hurt I switch to Dakrina. And I use Dwelle at night. With Thera Tears it felt "good" when it was in my eye at first but I did not get any relief afterwards. I needed to put them in all the time. With Dakrina, I did not necessarily like the way it "felt" going in but with continued use it gave me results. That's the difference ... the results. But at this point your dry eye is much worse than mine so you would have to research all your options and perhaps use those to build on a regime of these drops.

[madarka]

to mj

you are right mj i should keep my eyes lubricated because i could hurt them even more in a long term by not using any drops.i will definitely consider the drops you r using even though i have an appt on monday with my eye doc to discuss autologous serum drops.i think i hurt my eyes by prolonged use of artif.tears and i disrupted my own natural production of tears.but that is just my theory and since i am not a doc i don't want to play with fire and do something stupid.i definitely appreciate ur opinion mj

[MJ]

i have an appt on monday with my eye doc to discuss autologous serum drops.

I hope it goes well for you. Let us know what he has to say about the serum drops. I hope they are something that will bring you some relief.

mj

[madarka]

to mj

my eye doc examined my eyes yesterday and said we should try serum immediately since my poor eyes r very dehydrated and inflamed so i got my serum yesterday and started using it.my doc told me that if i will feel a relief it would b after 7-10days.ohhhhh i am so impatient.i was told i can use one bottle for 7days as long as it is in fridge and other bottles r frozen.

[dianat]

I have been using serum for nearly two years...once in the am, once in the pm. I do believe it helps reduce the inflammation that causes all the dryness and burning. I'm far from great, but I am under control.

When several days pass (due to an infection perhaps) and I've not used serum, I can usually tell. My husband says he can tell...I complain more about my comfort.

I wish you the best with it. Keep us posted.

Diana