How long after LASIK did you develop chronic DES

[sabine]

I stopped going to my lasik doctor because he said I had psychological problems instead of helping me!!!!!! And also because I tried to make a lawsuit (right word?) against him but with no success. Dry eyes is only a complication, they say!!!!!
The doctor which i am seeing the last years is also a lasik doctor but there was no other option, I needed a hospital doctor because the other here in Bruges don't know anything about plugs.


Sabine

[YGB]

YGB,

You mentioned in your post that plugging eyes that have severe MGD is not a good idea.

Just wondering if you could shed a little more light on this. I believe I have MGD (as I quite often get the little bumps on my eyelids both top and bottom) but my Dr's have ruled out Blepharitis.

I thought MGD was a form of Blepharitis but I may be very wrong here, maybe I'm asking the wrong question. I need to ask if I have MGD and not Blepharitis.

Anyway, I ask because I am plugged (lower only) and have often wondered whether I would have more of a chance getting the MGD under control if my plugs were removed - just a thought (will discuss this on next month visit with DR).

Hi Ian - I don't get the little bumps on my eyelids but I believe that is one possible sign of MGD. You'll want to ask your MD to confirm.

If you have eyelid inflammation related to MGD, then I am pretty sure that many Ophthalmologists would say that you need to get the MGD/inflammation under control before inserting plugs. The reason is that you don't want to trap the inflammatory agents in your eyes that can worsen your MGD.

It sounds like the best approach for your glands would be daily compresses (maybe 2x a day for 15 minutes if your eyes are okay with it) and fish oil supplements. It may take months to see results, but try to stick with it on a daily basis. Also, as I stated in a recent post, be sure to alternate the compresses between the upper lid and the bottom lid. Don't just rest the wash cloth on the upper lid for the full time.

Anyway, I know that I may be preaching to the choir since I have learned much from your routine (including compresses) but since you asked, I thought that I would throw in my 2 cents. Best. YGB

[Lucy]

YGB----your post brought tears to my eyes. Plus a big belly laugh. I realize I'm very jaded after years of this stuff, so please ignore that part. You have written exactly what I (and many others) have gone through in the past (and present) with their lasik docs. Because I'm such a jaded person at this time, I got a chuckle out of this post.

I am truly sorry for your situation. I'm sorry for mine and all the others on here, too. What's worse is before you know the "ropes" of what is happening! Once you REALLY, REALLY "get it" then it becomes easier as you realize you're the captain of your own ship. If not, you'd better be ready to sit in the pilot's seat. You're a pretty fast learner, YGB, and are an asset to this board. Thanks.
Lucy

PS. Not to leave Ian out....Ian, you're the best, too.

[Dotanne]

I feel we must keep informing our Lasik Drs that we are still suffering. I also send the research/info excerpts from this BB to my Lasik Dr and eye specialist so that they can be better informed. I recently sent an update of my condition to my Lasik Dr and insisted on a reply. He says that I am the patient with the most severe symptoms he has ever had before and after the date of my Lasik (2004) even without previous refractive surgery - I guess he is still trying to reassure himself that it is OK to maim a patient now and then. He wanted to cauterise my punctum when he discovered I had bad dry eyes (put plugs in instead when I refused to let him touch my eyes surgically). Next visit he assured me that my depression made them worse (true I guess) and offered omega 3 therapy (I had been taking it already). However I think we should let our Lasik surgeons know that we are not healed as the consequence of their surgery. They need to know that we are not happy with the outcome. I also speak out openly about my condition as I feel the more we tell others what the pitfalls of Lasik are, the better. I have had the most help for my dry eye from this bulletin board. Lucy is so right - you have to pilot your own ship. My Lasik Dr also said "I am sure with your perseverance, you will in due course achieve comfort."

[Cindy]

Dotanne, I read every one of your posts and quietly applaud you. You are an inspiration.

However I think we should let our Lasik surgeons know that we are not healed as the consequence of their surgery. They need to know that we are not happy with the outcome. I also speak out openly about my condition as I feel the more we tell others what the pitfalls of Lasik are, the better.

My surgeon knows I am not happy with the outcome of my surgery. When given the opportunity to respond to my poor outcome his response was that my 'psychology' governs my response to my LASIK surgery. In other words, he thinks I'm nuts. LASIK docs can be blind beyond belief to our poor outcomes. Like you, I speak openly and often about what happened to me.

[YGB]

LASIK docs can be blind beyond belief to our poor outcomes.

It is no secret that refractive surgeons choose elective refractive surgery because they do not want to deal with sick patients (and they can make a lot of $'s in the process). At least to a certain degree, cognitive dissonance prevents them from seeing the harm that they do to healthy people.

Cindy, in your surgeon's mind, the problem is not with the "safe" procedure he performed on you. The problem is with you and/or your anatomy, mental state or other pathology. Your surgeon is simply incapable of fixing your problems, in part because he does not see those problems as problems he created (also, because treatment options for dry eye are so limited).

Also, other eye specialists (retinologist, glaucoma specialist) etc. have very limited training in elective refractive surgery techniques. In their minds, they do not feel fully capable of assessing the clinical picture, since many elective refractive surgery techniques lie well beyond the scope of their training. I saw this phenomenon in action when I went to see a Neuro-Ophthalmologist for my neuralgia just the other day and she in essence would not give me her assessment because she thought that I should talk to my cornea/LASIK MD since that MD is more familiar with the aching going on around my eyes .

I read somewhere where an MD stated that what is needed in ophthalmology is a specialty called Iatrogenic Ophthalmic Diseases, where the serious problems caused by elective surgeries can be studied and treated (instead of ignored as they are now!).

As it stands now, LASIK patients like us do not really exist in the current treatments for contemporary ophthalmology. Specialists cannot deal with what their fellow practitioners are doing to healthy eyes, so they resolve their cognitive dissonance by passing the responsibility for problem resolution onto someone else who they think is better qualified: i.e. the LASIK surgeon. Confronting their colleagues would mean certain ostracism, so this malignant situation just festers on.

I have come to the conclusion that MD's, lawyers, and the media are not going to tackle the issue of how LASIK is damaging people's eyes and lives. Therefore, the best we can do for now is let our MD's know and warn others.

[Bennys]

Floaters

Hi,

I had LASIK (Like A Scene In Kalidescope) done in May of 2002.

1. I was told by my doctor AFTER my procedure that I "came in to his office with dry eye" However I never used any drops. My dryness started immediately and was told this was normal for about a two month period and then it would subside.

2. No I could not wear contacts as I kept blinking them out (literally).
Side note: I think this should be one of the qualifying questions to ask BEFORE doing procedures as I now know this is an indicator.

3. No, not that I was aware of

4. At current I have not been diagnosed with any of the conditions listed, however I have over the last two years been dealing with some nerve problems.

I would like to add a number five if permitted.

5. Have you noticed more floaters since your LASIK?

In my case the answer would be, yes.

Jeff

I don't get on here much (because I'm on the computer all day) but I DEFNITELY HAVE MANY, MANY MORE FLOATERS SINCE MY LASIK. I feel it really did a number on my eyes in many ways.

[virus]

1. How long after lasik did you develop dry eye?

--Almost immediately

2. Did you have contact lense intolerance or dry eyes prior to LASIK?

--I wouldn't call it intolerance. I wore contact lenses on and off for years. I eventually stopped because I could only wear them for a few hours at a time before having to put artificial tears in constantly.

3. Did you have any contributing factor such as: medication, autoinmune desease, etc.?

--No

4. Did you later develop and autoinmune desease. In other words, you had LASIK prior to being diagnosed with sjogrens, lupus or any other similar condition?

--No

[Caroline]

Hi, here are my answers

1. How long after lasik did you develop dry eye?

--Almost immediately, but it got worse after 6 months as i also developed blepharitus

2. Did you have contact lense intolerance or dry eyes prior to LASIK?

--Yes. I wore contact lenses on and off for years. I could only wear them for a few hours at a time before having to put artificial tears in constantly so only wore them once a week in the evening. Interestingly when i was first fittied with contacts my opthalmologist was amazed that i was flicking them out with my eyelids and questioned how i could do this. I now know that must have been because my eyes were so dry, i should not have been allowed to wear them as I am sure my eyes got worse. I told my Lasik surgeon i had dry eyes as i could not wear contacts and asked him if this meant i was not a good candidate. He told me dry eye with contacts does not mean i have drys and that my eyes looked ok for surgery. It maddens me that my hunch about my eyes being too dry for surgery was correct and i knew better than my surgeon. What cowboy did i let mess with my eyes!?

3. Did you have any contributing factor such as: medication, autoinmune desease, etc.?

--Onlt that I was on medication at the time that made my eyes even dryer (not that i knew that at the time). But i made my laser clinic aware of what i was on and they did not tell me it was making my eyes dryer.

4. Did you later develop an autoinmune desease. In other words, you had LASIK prior to being diagnosed with sjogrens, lupus or any other similar condition?

--No


5. Increase in floaters.

--Most definately.

[needhelp640]

1. How long after lasik did you develop dry eye

9 months and two weeks.. I woke up one morning and it all started. It hasn't gotten any better or worse since

2. Did you have contact lense intolerance or dry eyes prior to LASIK?

I hadn't worn contacts for 8 years so I can't really tell

3. Did you have any contributing factor such as: medication, autoinmune desease, etc.

No

4. Did you later develop and autoinmune desease. In other words, you had LASIK prior to being diagnosed with sjogrens, lupus or any other similar condition?

No

[patrick]

hi there,

1. i didn't have lasik but lasek. supposed to be safer,but i developed des anyway. i had some dry eye symptoms prior to the laser surgery so initially i wasn't even aware that there was something going horribly wrong with my eyes. it became obvious that i had a chronic and progressive condition after about three years. that was the first time i went to an opthalomogist.

2. yes! my contactlens intolerance was the reason to have lasek. i couldn't wear my lenses anymore,especially not at work.

3. not sure. i was on antihistamines (zyrtec) for a decade before lasek. (age 23 till 33) we had 2 cats and a dog and i developed an allergie for pets over the years. i took the antihistamines untill all our pets had died. that was untill 2 years before surgery.

4. no. i'm very healthy in all other aspects...

5. in my case no.

patrick...

[Margaret]

I'm 9 months out since Lasik, so I don't know what my outcome will eventually be but here goes:

1. yes, right away I knew what I was feeling wasn't right. Went from moderate dryness to severe dryness within 2 months.

2. Yes, I could wear them for special occasions, but I didn't really like to wear them because of the intolerance.

3. No - have hay fever for about 6 weeks out of the year.

4. No but allergies and Lupus run in the family. Took blood tests, all normal

5. YES, around 3 months out I woke up with literally hundreds of floaters. they have subsided a bit, but I still have patches of them.

Margaret

[zoso967]

1. How long after lasik did you develop dry eye?

immediately but much worse @ about 3.5 years post op

2. Did you have contact lense intolerance or dry eyes prior to LASIK?

in hindsight, probably. I was taking them out and cleaning them more often than before

3. Did you have any contributing factor such as: medication, autoinmune desease, etc.?

yes, I was taking antidepressants (Celexa, Remeron, Konopin)

4. Did you later develop an autoinmune desease. In other words, you had LASIK prior to being diagnosed with sjogrens, lupus or any other similar condition?

no


5. Increase in floaters.

yes

[Lacey1]

1. How long after lasik did you develop dry eye
Started having problems 2 years after LASIKS. 3 and 1/2 years later the dry eyes got really bad and I was diagnosed with posterior blepharitis/mgd (I'm only 25 so I think this is kind of young to develop this.)

2. Did you have contact lense intolerance or dry eyes prior to LASIK?
Yes, I noticed they weren't very comfortable. I had stopped wearing contacts about 2 years before the procedure.

3. Did you have any contributing factor such as: medication, autoinmune desease, etc.
Not that I know of.

4. Did you later develop and autoinmune desease. In other words, you had LASIK prior to being diagnosed with sjogrens, lupus or any other similar condition?
Not that I know of.

[fiddle]

1) I had severe dry eyes immediately after surgery (minutes) and it went down hill from there (severe pain). In fact the surgery itself was beyond painful for me. I am still brought to tears (no pun intended) just recalling the event and the day. My last exam with Dr. Caffery I was told I suffer from severe dry eyes 1 year past surgery.
2) I wore contacts for years without issue (no artifical tears ever needed). I lived a normal life before surgery and could read, work on a computer, swim, do whatever I wanted without pain.
3) I was dx with sjogrens after the surgery but was unaware of it up until then.
4) My sjogrens did get much worse after surgery yes. I had a dry mouth/throat/lips and nasal passage before but managed them on my own with water and chapstick. Now I am wreck most days and wonder how my life has taken such a negative twist.
5) Increased floaters, yes and 8 complications since the surgery and counting.
fiddle