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**stella** · 05-Feb-2009, 11:57

Hi Rich - I can almost feel the total and utter frustration from your post ---
Just one thing i want to comment on
you say you have come to the conclusion long ago that all drops make things worse for you

I too used to think this ,and could hardly tolerate anything in, or near my eyes
BUT things have changed, and i can tolerate quite a lot of drops and even eyecreams that were a complete no no before

WHY ??? Well i think the difference now is that my tear film is intact ie I do not have holes in the tear film exposing the very sensitive cornea that i used to (there are other people like yourself who can put nothing in their eyes - Eva B is one of these)

How did i get from having holes in my tear film to it being intact?
Well i think it was 'cos i addressed the underlying problem causing the holes in the tearfilm ,namely MGD - I was ,and still am meticulous about eyelid hygiene and probably always will ,have to be -- and gradually things improved and i found that drops did bennifit me (I have experimented with various drops ) and am still experimenting -- at the moment my optometrist has told me that my tear film is intact ,but thin and unstable so i am working with Clinitas ultra 3 which claims to improve tear film - I have had problems with ultra 3 - like stinging on instillation ,only sometimes when my blepharitis has flared up or after warming cleaning and expressing the glands - I have persevered and hope to go back to the optometrist after 6 months of using these drops and see if there is any improvement

So dont give up on drops - they do protect your eyes and the situation can change Keep experimenting with whats on the market and try to find the underlying cause

**clioos** · 05-Feb-2009, 12:03

Hi Rich,

Everyone has a right to a "why me day or two". I'm sorry for your situation.

I've had much difficulty with eyedrops causing sensitivities. The only OTC eyedrop that I use daily is TheraTears. Not sure if you can purchase them where you're located. Again, you're not doing the wrong thing by trying these items over at a later time. I do that all of the time. For a long time Restasis caused adverse effects but all of a sudden (4 years later) they do not cause any bad effects. Go figure.

Anyway, do not give up and keep us posted.

Clio

**mlittlem** · 05-Feb-2009, 15:29

I share your PAIN

Rich,

My heart really reaches out to you in your pain and I truly ache for your situation. I do not know if I misread the 40 years, but if that is the case, no wonder your frustration is off the charts. I am 2 1/2 years into this ordeal and cannot see how I make it from day to day. Like you I hardly recall a good day during this whole time period. I become so frustrated with the well-meaning folks who counsel you to get out of the house and do things when there is a good day. The reality is that there never is a good day or even for that matter a tolerable day.

I agree with you on your assessment of the drops. Fairly useless in my opinion. There are days I use them every 5 minutes, to no avail. In fact at times they do make matters worse.

I do appreciate the comment from Stella, though. She seems to offer a ray of hope. However, I myself do not get any relief from the lid hygiene. I try it and that too exacerabates things. My lids are so sensitive, that to touch them with the warm rag is agonizing.

Sorry I cannot offer anymore to you other than my sincerest sympathies.

**hkgcomet** · 05-Feb-2009, 22:33

how did you get your dry eye?

I know using eye drop will reduce the chance or speed of recover.
I had stop using eye drop for a period. Now I only use it outdoor for necessary.
But bedtime eye gel is a must.

Have you use any dry eye glasses, or MCG?
I could stop using eye drop with them. Real tear is non-replaceable, we all know it much.
Dry eye also not the only problem of "dry". The tiredness is the main problem of my eye.

I am having chinese medicine and acupuncture now.

Don't give up, man!

**Rich S.** · 05-Feb-2009, 23:59

Thank you for all your kind replies.

I actually remember as a kid (now thats a long time ago) possibly from the age of 8 that i could not go swimming with my mates because of my eyes would be bad for days plus other things with my eyes at this period of time;

So Im now 52 that makes 44 yrs of Dry eye yep 44Yrs, Tell me about it! Of course when your a kid you dont realise wqhat youve got so it doesnt worry you ,then you get in your teens and thats when i started going to eye doctors but of course you think you will get better!!

Then you get into your thirtys and its getting worse and getting you down,drops and creams a joke!!

Then you get into your fortys you realise youve got this major problem and thats when it really affected my life you know going out or rather stopping going out ,you all know! Plus condition is getting worse.

Now in my early fiftys im very fit but this dry eye thing is major every day no respite apart from when a sleep and even then that is often poor, the redness is bad enough but i can put up with that if i have to ,the biggest problem i have is the constant stinging ,think off of cutting up the strongest onion and rubbing it in your eyes and thats what its like every waking hour from 20 seconds of waking up then down hill right the way through the day.

I work outside as a builder so that certainly doesnt help especially in this winter here in the UK but even in the summer i find it can be just as bad ,having said that i definately couldnt work in an office ,lights computors air con etc nope cant even walk into a high st shop for more than 5 mins and im in trouble.

I also find now that when the stinging starts it only gets worse as the day goes on , i used to find that the stinging would now and again get better as the day wore on but not now.

Cures well really done them all Drops, creams, doctors and more doctors nhs and private spent �1000s and more,hot bags ,glasses, hynotism, acupunture, healthcare , diets, plenty of water, grape juices eye lid hygene,tear duct operation, cysts operations,saunas, hot tubs,eye masks at night, vitamins blah blah blah.

Done it all and getting worse, its now 7 oclock in the morning now about to go and do 10 hours work outside and eyes are stinging badly now as i write this post and i know im being very negative but it WILL only get worse today.

Yet again sorry folks sorry about this miserable post and yet another miserable day coming up,blummin cold out there but do you know what somehow it does make you feel better by writing this post because i know that everyone reading this knows exactly what Dry Eye is all about.

So there you are my claim to fame Dry Eye for over 44yrs and possibly 52 yrs ha ha, can you be born with it maybe??

You lot are great all of you!!

Rich UK.

**eva b** · 08-Feb-2009, 07:57

hi Rich

i certainly can sympathise...as Stella said, i too can't use ANY drops - exactly same effectsa as you.

onlt thing which gives any comfort are moist warm compresses - rice bag bot the same - and having trouble with those just now as broke my arm last week on the ice !!!

try doing compresses with one hand.....

typung with one hand - sorry

some days you feel like giving up...

**hkgcomet** · 08-Feb-2009, 18:41

Had try CROMABAK eye drops?
It is just NaCl + water, no preservation.

**Nowty** · 15-Feb-2009, 13:00

Been there many times before, my eyes have been feeling pretty good for a few days with minimal drops or maintenance and I feel confident not to put in any night time drops and wallop, searing pain upon wakening and bad eyes again for several days. Then I am back on the daily lid scrubs, hot compresses and a multitude of drops / ointments. I think some of us have to come to terms that we have a chronic condition which is never going to suddenly cure itself even though occasionally our eyes seem almost normal.

**irish eyes** · 16-Feb-2009, 02:07

Hi Nowty

Isn't it strange how we can have some days that are not as bad as others although I seem to be having fewer and fewer of those recently. Even the smallest chores demand a supreme effort and all this makes one so tired doesn't it?

I haven't found a drop yet that I can tolerate.

**Rojzen** · 16-Feb-2009, 17:51

Stick with it, regardless: Clinitas Ultra 3

To Rich S. and Stella, dear compatriots: Stella is showing patience on Clinitas Ultra 3, and her target of a 6-month evaluation on this product is incredibly smart. I cannot tell whether you, Rich S., have yet tried Clinitas Ultra 3 for any EXTENDED period of time, but what I learned after 10 years of complete absorption with debilitating dry eye was that all drops made me worse except for Dwelle and FreshKote (the latter of which is the same product as Clinitas Ultra 3). It took me 7 months to detect significant change, but when that change happened, it was astounding, and it has now lasted for over a year and counting. For details, please see my many previous posts about this. I am a veteran of Restasis and of every other drop imaginable, along with several experimental therapies, such as topical retinoic acid. I have a hugely unstable tear film, but not severely deficient tear production. I do gentle lid massage/wash daily, with Burt's Bees baby shampoo (VERY dilute, as Rebecca advises us so well). Will you consider sticking with Clinitas Ultra 3 for a long haul? It could well be worth the wait. . .

**Rich S.** · 17-Feb-2009, 10:31

Originally posted by Rojzen View Post

To Rich S. and Stella, dear compatriots: Stella is showing patience on Clinitas Ultra 3, and her target of a 6-month evaluation on this product is incredibly smart. I cannot tell whether you, Rich S., have yet tried Clinitas Ultra 3 for any EXTENDED period of time, but what I learned after 10 years of complete absorption with debilitating dry eye was that all drops made me worse except for Dwelle and FreshKote (the latter of which is the same product as Clinitas Ultra 3). It took me 7 months to detect significant change, but when that change happened, it was astounding, and it has now lasted for over a year and counting. For details, please see my many previous posts about this. I am a veteran of Restasis and of every other drop imaginable, along with several experimental therapies, such as topical retinoic acid. I have a hugely unstable tear film, but not severely deficient tear production. I do gentle lid massage/wash daily, with Burt's Bees baby shampoo (VERY dilute, as Rebecca advises us so well). Will you consider sticking with Clinitas Ultra 3 for a long haul? It could well be worth the wait. . .

Thank you Rojzen, If you think its worth it i will try Clinitas 3 for the long haul,got to do something,not on any drops at all for weeks but still massive problems stinging and more stinging 24 /7.

How many drops a day did you do of the stuff??

Also has it got a preservative in it??

Thank you for your help.

Rich.

**stella** · 17-Feb-2009, 14:12

Yes Rich and Rojzen - I really am beginning to believe that clinitas ultra 3 is working for me
I use it at least 3 times a day and in some situations like blow heaters in church ,and cars, and peoples houses ,i need to use it more often - you can use it as and when -the literature does not give a limit
I am finding that even when i get a flare up of the blepharitis and my lids are sore prickly and itchy this drop ,except for stinging the inflamed lids on instillation, has definately improved and continues to improve the actual feeling of comfort in my eyes
Regarding the fact that it does contain preservative (though not a very powerful one like BAK ) worries me for the long term
I cant get any answers about the longterm effects of the preservstive in clinitas ultra 3 - so I'm just continuing to use it in good faith that someone as knowledgable and commited as Dr Holly would not alow anything harmful in his eyedrops

**Rojzen** · 17-Feb-2009, 17:56

preservative in Dwelle shown less harmful than water

Stella and Rich, and other interested friends, I'm excited by your serious interest in trying Clinitas Ultra 3 for a long haul. Stella is showing not only grit, but also great instinct, I think, in not being deterred by the stinging on instillation that this product (like Dwelle) can cause. That stinging should not be read as an indicator of damage.

A propos the fear of adverse effects, the presence of a preservative in Clinitas Ultra 3 and Dwelle is not something to be worried about, in my view, unless one has a very rare sensitivity to that very particular compound. I am a bit rushed now, and cannot stop to pull up the exact post, but some time ago, Dr. Holly posted a few paragraphs here at DEZ on how truly harmless the preservative in these products is. He reported that the preservative in question has not only been found to be less harmful than pure water, to the eye surface, but, if I recollect correctly, that it even has a slight potentially therapeutic effect. If you cannot find the relevant post by Searching here, please PM me, and I promise I will get it for you.

**stella** · 18-Feb-2009, 14:05

Rojzen - thank you for that reassurance
I too remember Dr Holly somewhere saying that the preservative in all his drops had an antiseptic bennifit
so i intend to relax about it and just go on using and thank God i am so much better
Also may i say thank you Rojzen for your encouragement with these drops -
I have always held your opinions in high regard 'cos you do the research and reading and have intellegent reasons for doing things - often way beyond my understanding
I am just so glad to find something that helps and use it and want to pass it on to everone else just in case it will help them
So Rich - do try clinitas ultra 3 and persevere and we just hope and pray they will bennifit you even a bit

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