Woke up in tears...

[Guest]

Your wonderful wife needs you to have hope and to carry on even if it's only one day at a time.

Yes, this is so true... can't forget about those in our life who need us to carry on... (how would we feel if we were in their shoes for example?)... eyes that suck aren't a deal breaker, so we have to figure out a way to deal with it.

[patientpatrick]

SAAG - I admire your strength immensely. You're finding the good fight and you're not quitting. I do find it interesting that you still need to use drops so often even though you are experiencing epiphora from the punctal cautery. If you have time, I'd love to hear how that happens and how you feel about it.

nadz - I feel for you greatly. My heart goes out to you and your husband. I am trying so hard to be hopeful. I went out with some friends I had know for years. It was windy out so i put on a pair of wrap around eye guards but still couldn't hang out outside. I had to retreat indoors. One of my friends asked what was wrong, I said dry eyes. He said we can go to CVS and get some visine. Another friend said I thought lasik dry eye was just a temporary thing. At that point I just wanted to cry. He saw me get upset and comforted me by saying time heals all wounds. That made me want to cry more. The more and more I try and press on, the less hopeful I get though. I used to believe that time does heal all wounds, but it seems that time only makes things worse. I don't mean to be a bummer nadz, but its really hard to see hope seeing how things get even worse with time. How i wish things were different. you and your husband are in my heart.

[Rebecca Petris]

I have such a grudge against LASIK for doing this to people. Life has its normal ups and downs and then once in awhile along comes a zinger and lays ya flat... that's what LASIK is notorious for. I mean I know we emerge stronger and better from it, but it sucks and none of us would choose it. (And for those wallowing in the "But I did!" thinking, no you didn't. I mean, not THIS.)

I recently went through a -mercifully brief- period of being totally emotionally wiped out, upset, discouraged, you name it, very unusual for me. I've been through just about every financial problem/pressure in the book over the years due to family health problems, in the absence of money I've run my business on faith for a long time now, and I guess I thought I had developed an immunity to money stuff getting me down. Then along came a new little zinger and I tanked. But bad. - Then I beat myself up for tanking. Eesh, the things we do to ourselves! It took a sheep to remind me that I wasn't just a failure all round Last Sunday my fuzzy, affectionate gentle little ram attacked me unexpectedly. I stood there like an idiot gaping at him while he backed up a dozen yards, lowered his head and charged... and again... and again... Some bruises later, I made it to the fence and over. I thought, ooooh, that's what happened last week. I got emotionally battered by some stuff and it's OK to be human with all those feelings of powerlessness and just admit it.

[Guest]

I do find it interesting that you still need to use drops so often even though you are experiencing epiphora from the punctal cautery. If you have time, I'd love to hear how that happens and how you feel about it.

I guess using them every 2 hours even sounds like a lot to most people, but for me, if you consider that in a typical 8 hour period of dropping every 15 minutes under stressful eye conditions (ex. work), that would typically mean 32 doses of artificial tears, and now, in that same 8 hour period of stressful eye conditions, I may only use 4 doses of drops, this recent cautery has cut down my eyedrop usage by 87.5% (I felt like whipping out the 'ol calculator... don't mind me...)

So how do I feel about it? Thrilled! That's a massive improvement and worth being happy about! Maybe in a few more years I'll be able to figure out a way to cut that down even more... who knows... and if not, it's not the end of the world since I'm managing ok as is.

And as for the epiphora and still using drops, I suppose I ought to clarify so it will make sense

IF I haven't stressed my eyes too much by concentrating too much at work, computer use for too long, THEN, I will have epiphora and almost never need drops (only if my eyes start burning inexplicably... but that doesn't happen much if my eyes are overflowing). However, if I do anything that lowers my blink rate for too long (ex. computer use, busy at work etc), then the epiphora stops and I end up feeling dry again, hence the need for drops... then I'll go back to doing something else that is non-stressful to my eyes and requires no concentration (where presumably I go back to blinking non-stop), and the epiphora starts again therefore no more drops needed again.

However, with the cautery currently holding up, even when I DO need drops, it tends to be less often than pre-cautery for the same activity.

Hope that makes sense of things.

Also Patrick, regarding your putting on wrap-around eye guards and still not being able to be outside... was wondering if you were wearing ones with a nice foam seal - I suspect maybe you weren't, in which case there is totally still hope for you in terms of outdoor comfort - have you checked out Wiley X's? They have a variety of fits available... you can go to their website to find a dealer in your area so you can try them on (then once you know what style fits you, you can either buy from them, or from Rebecca's shop) The key to comfort outdoors, even in the windiest conditions, is an excellent-fitting pair of foam-lined sunglasses.

My Wiley's have enabled me to zoom across the ocean in a fast-moving boat (tons of wind that way!.. granted I was still squinty behind my Wiley's but at least I could DO this and ENJOY it!), go zip-lining, hike in very windy areas, and for sure stay outside conversing as long as I want even on windy days. Admittedly I still have trouble with roller-blading and bike-riding since that creates too much wind - squinting when roller-blading or bike-riding is a sure-fire way to cause me to crash - but for activities where I can squint a bit and not fall on my face, even the biggest winds no longer prevent me from enjoying those options. Some people have also had success finding foam-lined glasses in biker shops... I guess people that ride motorcycles need eye protection, and the types of foam-lined sunglasses that THEY wear work quite nicely for our purposes too... again, the key is a great fit!

The wanting to cry part - had a lot of those moments myself when I was at my worst - all it would take is one person to show some compassion or sympathy and I was a sobbing mess... sobbed in my current dr's office the first time I saw him back in 2009 - didn't mean to, but was so happy that he seemed GOOD, that I sobbed with relief to be there... ditto in Dr. Rosenthal's office for my first visit... dang... what is it about first visits and tears!!! (And the sobbing in Dr. R's office caught me totally off guard, but mind you, I'd had a reaaaaallly tough week at BFS before seeing him, so I guess I needed to get it out) Anyhow, the crying tears mostly stop eventually... thank goodness!

... it's OK to be human with all those feelings of powerlessness and just admit it.

So true!

[Guest]

One of my friends asked what was wrong, I said dry eyes. He said we can go to CVS and get some visine.

That's the kind of thing that makes me think

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAArgh!!! But I'm a total Post-LASIK freak of nature and Visine won't fix ME!!!!! /sigh

For the record, I use the term "freak" in the nicest possible way haha I've come to terms with the fact that I am simply not normal when it comes to my eyes...

I find that if I'm in the company of people where I am not sure if they want to hear about it, yet they ask what's going on with my eyes, I'll just say I have freakish eye problems and it's a long story... usually they just accept that and don't ask for details, which saves me having to hear them suggest using artificial tears.

[soaps]

Thank u SAAG for hypotears info . i have been using for three months and saved me from horrible pain at night and only two hour sleep. i slept 8.5 hours last night first time ever more than 6 hours with no pain. i order my hypotears from canada with free shipping !
I would love to drop every two hours . hopefully with serum drops things will improve . does anyone find they have to buffer serum drops with artificial tears before otherwise they sting and eyes go red? Oh well small price to pay for increased comfort and less flareups .
Patrick you may give serum drops a go.

[Guest]

Thank u SAAG for hypotears info . i have been using for three months and saved me from horrible pain at night and only two hour sleep. i slept 8.5 hours last night first time ever more than 6 hours with no pain.

Yay! Glad you've found something that works for you overnight!

One of the things I like about the Hypotears brand in particular is that it is lanolin free - all that's in there, as far as I can tell, is mineral oil and petrolatum. (Lanolin is one of those things that people can be allergic to, so as I see it, might as well use a lanolin-free ointment if possible since that's one less thing to worry about - in contrast, Refresh ointment DOES contain lanolin... think it goes by "Refresh P.M." in the U.S.)

Last but not least, ointments are known to cause dry spots... the ointment messes up the tear film... one reason why they wouldn't be ideal for daytime use (but since you're not blinking when you're asleep, using it overnight should be a non-issue) I usually use a vial of Bion tears in each eye first thing in the a.m. to flush out the ointment from my eyes... then wash my lashes (closed lids) to remove as much excess ointment as possible in hopes of minimizing it getting into my eyes during waking hours. If I didn't rinse it out in the morning, my eyes would feel lousy for several hours (until the ointment washes out naturally with blinking etc.)

[patientpatrick]

I guess using them every 2 hours even sounds like a lot to most people, but for me, if you consider that in a typical 8 hour period of dropping every 15 minutes under stressful eye conditions (ex. work), that would typically mean 32 doses of artificial tears, and now, in that same 8 hour period of stressful eye conditions, I may only use 4 doses of drops, this recent cautery has cut down my eyedrop usage by 87.5% (I felt like whipping out the 'ol calculator... don't mind me...)

So how do I feel about it? Thrilled! That's a massive improvement and worth being happy about! Maybe in a few more years I'll be able to figure out a way to cut that down even more... who knows... and if not, it's not the end of the world since I'm managing ok as is.

And as for the epiphora and still using drops, I suppose I ought to clarify so it will make sense

IF I haven't stressed my eyes too much by concentrating too much at work, computer use for too long, THEN, I will have epiphora and almost never need drops (only if my eyes start burning inexplicably... but that doesn't happen much if my eyes are overflowing). However, if I do anything that lowers my blink rate for too long (ex. computer use, busy at work etc), then the epiphora stops and I end up feeling dry again, hence the need for drops... then I'll go back to doing something else that is non-stressful to my eyes and requires no concentration (where presumably I go back to blinking non-stop), and the epiphora starts again therefore no more drops needed again.

However, with the cautery currently holding up, even when I DO need drops, it tends to be less often than pre-cautery for the same activity.

Hope that makes sense of things.

Also Patrick, regarding your putting on wrap-around eye guards and still not being able to be outside... was wondering if you were wearing ones with a nice foam seal - I suspect maybe you weren't, in which case there is totally still hope for you in terms of outdoor comfort - have you checked out Wiley X's? They have a variety of fits available... you can go to their website to find a dealer in your area so you can try them on (then once you know what style fits you, you can either buy from them, or from Rebecca's shop) The key to comfort outdoors, even in the windiest conditions, is an excellent-fitting pair of foam-lined sunglasses.

My Wiley's have enabled me to zoom across the ocean in a fast-moving boat (tons of wind that way!.. granted I was still squinty behind my Wiley's but at least I could DO this and ENJOY it!), go zip-lining, hike in very windy areas, and for sure stay outside conversing as long as I want even on windy days. Admittedly I still have trouble with roller-blading and bike-riding since that creates too much wind - squinting when roller-blading or bike-riding is a sure-fire way to cause me to crash - but for activities where I can squint a bit and not fall on my face, even the biggest winds no longer prevent me from enjoying those options. Some people have also had success finding foam-lined glasses in biker shops... I guess people that ride motorcycles need eye protection, and the types of foam-lined sunglasses that THEY wear work quite nicely for our purposes too... again, the key is a great fit!

The wanting to cry part - had a lot of those moments myself when I was at my worst - all it would take is one person to show some compassion or sympathy and I was a sobbing mess... sobbed in my current dr's office the first time I saw him back in 2009 - didn't mean to, but was so happy that he seemed GOOD, that I sobbed with relief to be there... ditto in Dr. Rosenthal's office for my first visit... dang... what is it about first visits and tears!!! (And the sobbing in Dr. R's office caught me totally off guard, but mind you, I'd had a reaaaaallly tough week at BFS before seeing him, so I guess I needed to get it out) Anyhow, the crying tears mostly stop eventually... thank goodness!



So true!

Hey SAAG. This is an amazing post. 87.5% is an amazing number! I got a pair of the tranquileyes in the mail today. They are a bit big for my head. I'm thinking of getting a strap in the back to hold them tighter to my face. I'm going to try that out for a few weeks and see how that goes. What i really needed was something so I can tolerate the blasted vents at the hospital. I'm going to try and get fitted for some Wiley's soon. I've ordered a few foam-lined wrap around sunglasses but they either don't fit right or fog up like crazy or don't block enough wind.

You're cautery experience has really given me a lot to think about. I keep thinking if i can make it to 87.5% i'll finally have a moment of triumph. I find it interesting how medical blogs call epiphora from punctal occlusion as a complication. I'm like GEEZ!!! it's the closest thing some of us have to a cure. I just talked to Tankie a few days ago and he says despite the annoyance of tears dripping down his face, he's PAIN FREE!!! That's pretty much what we all want right?

I must ask though, do you notice any burning, stinging, or any weird feeling from your epiphoria tears? Is it like reflex tearing? I ask because I notice how relieved I feel after waking up in tears, but after I stop my eye seem to feel drier than before I cried. I understand that the make-up of the tears are different. Regardless I'm going in for a punctal plug consultation on Wed. I was told that there are Eagle Vision Plus plugs, as well as collagen temps and extended duration dissolvables. As of right now I'm leaning toward the extended duration ones. I'll keep you posted on my progress. Thank you again for all your support. It has meant a great deal to me.

[Guest]

I guess for some people, maybe their dry eye wasn't bothering them as much as us, so to THEM, the epiphora is worse than the dry eye they had before that. It all depends on how badly the dryness was bothering a person I guess.

And no, the epiphora tears do not cause any weird feelings - they are just normal tears that happen to collect since they can't drain, until eventually too many collect and they overflow.

When you cry, the tears you make are very salty tears compared to normal ones - that excess saltiness can be very irritating to the eyes... kind of makes sense now why even normal people's eyes often turn red when they cry - crying tears are irritating! Then you take people like us whose eyes are already prone to being irritated as all hell, and then if we cry, we start flooding our eyes with these uber salty tears that only cause more irritation (which causes more inflammation) on top of what we were already dealing with.

And yes, do try the extended duration dissolvable plugs... you can get ones that supposedly last as long as 3 mo (but apparently they often dissolve faster than that, so your mileage may vary)... in any case, they'll give you a hint of what you may experience with permanent plugs (just keep in mind that the dissolvable plugs generally do NOT block the puncta as well as permanent plugs... so permanent plugs are likely to make your eyes feel even more wet than the dissolvable ones do.) My view on dissolvables is that even if all you get is a miniscule improvement, that's a good sign (since omg something actually helped!!!) and might as well go for the permanent ones... and if 2 puncta plugged only help a tiny bit, then that's once again a good sign (the 'ol omg something actually helped thing) and might as well go for getting all 4 puncta plugged (you'd be SHOCKED at how HUGE of a difference you can notice between only 2 puncta plugged and all 4... it's amazing really...)

When your eyes are flared up as all heck, you have to look for the tiniest of clues that a treatment may be helping, since any improvements may very well increase further as your eyes heal over time...

And yes, do try out some Wiley's asap... if you can find a pair that fits decently, they are likely to make a world of difference to you. To get over feeling self-conscious when I wear mine to work (as I have been this winter), I just force myself to pretend I look like the old me... helps me ACT normal and that makes everything go better. If anyone asks why I'm wearing them, and I feel like they're honestly interested, I'll take the opportunity to do a "public service" haha and share what LASIK has done to my eyes... might save someone else from doing it in future, right?

[patientpatrick]

I am so grateful for your advice SAAG. I'll make sure i mention all your notes when i go in for the punctal plug consulation. I asked 3 docs about plugs so far. The first one was hesistant since I have posterior bleph/MGD. The 2nd one didn't seem to be much for an advocate for them. Said something to the effect, they "might" help. Didn't seem too encouraging. The 3rd said, it's worth a try but he doesn't do them and suggested a doc that does. I mention that i had posterior bleph/MGD and he said he didn't see any signs of concern. So I'm going to go for it.

I'm expecting my first child any day now, and the hospital is like hell for my eyes. I wonder if i should opt for the permanent ones and see if they help first. If I don't notice anything then I guess i'll just get them removed. Well there's a lot to think about. If it's alright with you, I'd like to pick your brain some more.

[dryeye4ever]

its a question of time patrick, i dont believe you cant heal. As for me im 22-23 and since 1 year or so i got mild dry eye that wont go away. The worse is that my recovery is possible but it requires a lot of sacrifices but i get so discouraged that i give up at half my recovery most of time. No computer or tv in this era of age is almost an impossible task, it leaves me a lot of free time and gives me a lot of social isolation. This time im not giving up and will go for the real recovery which is possible but in theory its impossible.

Heck its dry eyes, impossible should be used.

[Guest]

I wonder if i should opt for the permanent ones and see if they help first. If I don't notice anything then I guess i'll just get them removed.

That's exactly right... if they bother you, don't help at all, getting them removed is always an option.

BUT, remember what I said about the fact that for many people getting only the lower puncta plugged may not make much difference, but getting uppers AND lowers plugged makes a dramatic difference. So, even if you're not sure, or you only get a tiny bit of improvement from having only lowers plugged for example, be sure to proceed and get the uppers plugged too - that way you'll have all 4 puncta plugged - and you can see if THAT makes a difference.

And if the cap on the umbrella-style plugs is irritating, but the excess tears feel good, cautery is always an option too.

Totally know what you mean about hospitals - time to get yourself a pair of Wiley's - make that a priority so the time you'll be spending in hospital with your wife will be better for your eyes.

[Guest]

No computer or tv in this era of age is almost an impossible task, it leaves me a lot of free time and gives me a lot of social isolation.

Check out audiobooks for filling all that free time... instead of watching TV, listen to it with your eyes closed... for most shows, you don't actually need to be looking at the screen to know what's going on... (or you can take a quick peek whenever something is going on that doesn't make sense just by listening). As for the social isolation, go out and meet with friends in person whenever possible (ie. rather than interacting with them via e-mail or texts etc.)

[nadz]

Thank you SAAG for your comprehensive reply about sleeping. Your information is so valuable, as we're fairly new to this night time horror and have no idea what's best to do.

At the mo my hubbie is getting up every 90mins or so, but it's affecting his health as he's not getting REM sleep. So, we know he has to push the boundaries and sleep for longer. We got the tranquileyes goggles from this site and he's just started with that and so far the moisture is helping to avoid eyes sticking together. Like most DES sufferers though time will tell, as it does seem to be a lot of trial and error involved.

[patientpatrick]

Hey SAAG. I never got your story on plugs. I figured something must have happened that lead you to choose cautery. Did you never get the right fit? did plugs irritate your eye? did they cause problems for you?

I also want to tell you I started using Genteal Gel when i go to bed, and waking up in the morning isn't the excrutiating and painful event used to be. My eyes still feel gunky and crusty, but at least I can open without much pain. Have you tried Genteal Gel?