Starbursts and ghosting, dry eye sensation without actual dryness.. HELP

[farmgirl]

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[farmgirl]

Farmgirl, are you saying it may be normal that I'm still far from good 5 months after lipiflow?

Ebi, my theory is that lasik by cutting the nerves makes your glands idle for a while, glands clogs, and there you have MGD. Never tried the lenses. Eyelids dont feel itchy, only my eyes do.
I'm thinking of trying IPL and/or probing of glands.

Phenix have you had regular expression in the office in the months following the lipiflow. It seems that he thinks that is important. According to him if you have had the condition for 3 or more years then he seems to suggest that your recovery will take more time. Have you watched his video? It is a 4 part thing. I am going to watch it again and take notes as there is a LOT of information to digest and my memory is fading. If you haven't seen it I highly recommend taking the time to watch (or listen) to it and if you can take notes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSShGZfxiFg

It starts off in Spanish but ff to when he is introduced.

[ebi1368]

[QUOTE=diydry;n215120]

That’s my belief too. I think it’s more a theory than anything. No provider i’ve asked (yes, I ask these things!) really understands why lasik worsens MGD, but it can. Since the Meibomian glands are innervated by the corneal nerves, it makes sense they go idle while the cornea heals, and they block up. (In my case I was also told to stop doing warm compresses for several weeks after the lasik because it can dislodge the lasik flap, so this might have also clogged the glands). Although to be fair, I think ANY kind of eye surgery (cataracts) can worsen MGD if you look at the studies. When you have surgery, the body doesn’t like it.

I am having the same issue as you. My vision after lasik was crystal clear for 2 month and a week. One morning I woke up with sever dry eye and since then I have ghosting, starburst and halo. Ghosting is really annoying. I went to see many optometries and two surgeons. They have no idea why I am having these vision disturbance. [\quote]

Same here. I had perfect 20/15 vision after lasik for weeks. Eventually after months of dryness I noticed the ghosting. I think there are a couple possible explanations. The first is that there always was some ghosting post-lasik and once we notice it, because we’re obsessing on our eye condition, it became hard not to notice (many lasik patients have some visual aberrations moreso than before the surgery but it doesn’t bother them). Second, my provider says that the aberrations I see now are due to dryness. Once we fix the dryness most of it will go away. Third, there is some process of “overhealing” where the corneal tissue regrows after several months such that it’s not refracting the light as it did after surgery. I’m not really clear how this works or if this is even measurable.

I also have a strange problem in one eye, where it’s basically like I have a thin layer of Vaseline covering my eye obscuring my vision, but if I blink repeatedly my vision clears up, only for the blurriness to return after a few seconds. I imagine this is related to the mgd and dryness.

Thanks for reply
i remember you said your dry eye got better over the last few months after lasik. Have you noticed your ghosting got better too?

[ebi1368]

dano6533@gmail.com How is your eye doing?

[ebi1368]

I did lipiflow was weeks ago and then one week after my doctor did manual expression. I can’t tell I am feeling and difference. I am going to try IPL.

I also asked for my lipiview results. On my right eye, i have 70nm but most of the gland in lower lid is gone. The rest of gland in other lids are quite healthy. I don’t understand why. My doctor said it is probably the picture. I think she is right because on my left eye with 37 nm I did not lose any gland.

[ebi1368]

https://ibb.co/kHrZtU

I could not upload pic. Here is the link

@dano6533@gmail.com Let me know what you think

[ebi1368]

It is so weird because I only have problem in one of my eyelid and it is the eye with better LLT.

[ebi1368]

[QUOTE=diydry;n215120]

The first is that there always was some ghosting post-lasik and once we notice it, because we’re obsessing on our eye condition, it became hard not to notice (many lasik patients have some visual aberrations moreso than before the surgery but it doesn’t bother them).

I am pretty sure I did not have the visual disturbance at first because they are so annoying.

Second, my provider says that the aberrations I see now are due to dryness.

Even when I do not have staining on my cornea or I do not feel that my eyes are dry I still see the ghosting. Of course it is worse when my eyes are dry. THe other thing is that when I put eye drop I see the ghosting is changing in direction. I do not know why.

Third, there is some process of “overhealing” where the corneal tissue regrows after several months such that it’s not refracting the light as it did after surgery. I’m not really clear how this works or if this is even measurable.

My visual disturbance just happen over night. I took antihistamine for allergy as my GP told me. Then in the morning, I had sever dry eye with cornea staining. Since then I have visual problem. Can my cornea overheal in just less than 8 hours?

[Guest]

I think the bandage lens is actually helping. It might be that the eye lid had been causing mechanical damage to the cornea that had no tear film to protect it from each blink. With the lens in place the cornea is now protected from the damage of the eyelid and is starting to get a chance to recover. (Hopefully)

This gives me hope that the slceral lens will help even more since it is larger and filled with saline.

How are you doing?

Were you diagnosed with lid wiper epitheliopathy? That would be great if you got some answers. My eyes feel so good in contacts. For me, it's protection against environmental stimulus. Blocks the wind and keep the sensations to a minimum.

let me ask you, if you apply ointment to your lids and eye to lubricate them, does the pain reduce or go away?

[diydry]

Here is a recent study on how cataract surgery negatively affects the meibomian glands.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubme...ct%20meibomian

Here is a recenr study on how lasik negatively affects the meibomian glands. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubme...ik%20meibomian

Both studies are fairy recent. It’s great researchers are finally waking up to the importance of our meibomian glands. Too bad most clinicians are not, unsurprisingly.

My gusss is any visual aberrations are still related to your dryness. Even if there’s no staining, if you have even a little mgd it still affects the tear film and surface of your eye, which affects the way light is refracted in subtle ways. It’s physics. Oil refracts light differently than water, so any abnormal combination of tears can cause distortions. Just think about when you are swimming underwater, all the light is distorted. To answer your question, when my symptoms improve, I do notice less ghosting and halos. Sometimes I notice virtually none at all. But it fluctuates. Here’s a research study exploring this topic. Cutting edge stuff! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubme...sual%20quality

I think it remains to be seen whether scleral lenses have therapeutic qualities or if they just help the symptoms. I’m not aware of any studies on whether it can help the root cause, but I did have one provider who said that wearing sclerals for a year can break the cycle of inflammation and get the eyes into better shape where you don’t need to wear the lenses anymore.

[diydry]

Also antihistamine really really dried out my eyes too so I avoid those like the plague! I’m guessing you’re off them now? So you think your eyes never got better after taking the allergy meds? Sorry I’m trying to find the original post (typing from my smart phone).

[phenix01]

Update after probing:

guys, ditch lipiflow and IPL, probing is where it’s at. I did probing yesterday and can already feel a nice difference. I’m in front of my
computer with no burning sensation. My Dr said there’s no point doing lipiflow before opening the glands, it’s a waste of time and money.

anyways I am very happy with probing so far. My eyes feel like normal eyes now. Probing is nice because it is I instant result. It’s not like lipiflow where you leave the clinic not knowing is your glands unblocked. With probing you actually see the oil pop out of the gland. While I was getting probing I could see the oil accumulating in my eye. You also hear and feel the pop of glands unblocking.

unfortunately however, dr told me my visual distortion comes from abnormalities to the surface of the cornea which was caused by lasik. He says he can fix this with a corneoplasty but ugh that’s another surgery ! I was convinced dryness was the cause so this is new to me. I’ll wait however, what is it is dryness and time heals it up..

[MGD1701]

Hi phenix, thanks for sharing great news.

Probing
Seems you have a decent/knowledgable dr. He is right, probing should be done prior to LipiFlow.
Did he mention if probing can make glands grow??
Why your dr recommend probing, because you have scar tissue?? Thanks!

[MGD1701]

Hi diydry
if you can detect your allergy sources, you might not need allergy drop which makes eyes dryer.
Just pay a bit attention. Assume you have done IgE allergy blood test? It might help but still can no detect all.

[Guest]

Here is a recent study on how cataract surgery negatively affects the meibomian glands.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubme...ct%20meibomian

Here is a recenr study on how lasik negatively affects the meibomian glands. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubme...ik%20meibomian

Both studies are fairy recent. It’s great researchers are finally waking up to the importance of our meibomian glands. Too bad most clinicians are not, unsurprisingly.

My gusss is any visual aberrations are still related to your dryness. Even if there’s no staining, if you have even a little mgd it still affects the tear film and surface of your eye, which affects the way light is refracted in subtle ways. It’s physics. Oil refracts light differently than water, so any abnormal combination of tears can cause distortions. Just think about when you are swimming underwater, all the light is distorted. To answer your question, when my symptoms improve, I do notice less ghosting and halos. Sometimes I notice virtually none at all. But it fluctuates. Here’s a research study exploring this topic. Cutting edge stuff! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubme...sual%20quality

I think it remains to be seen whether scleral lenses have therapeutic qualities or if they just help the symptoms. I’m not aware of any studies on whether it can help the root cause, but I did have one provider who said that wearing sclerals for a year can break the cycle of inflammation and get the eyes into better shape where you don’t need to wear the lenses anymore.

I want to throw this out there...you said you believe the artifacts this person is seeing is related to dryness. That's possible of course, but I know from my experience with my injury, my cornea has a wave in it. That causes the light to scatter and causes starburst, halos, double vision or ghosting, lack of clarity, etc. if I put a drop in or a contact on, the liquid fills the gap and I can see perfectly.

Have you seen a corbeal specialist? I think this may be an irregular astigmatism. Could also be the inability of your epithelial cells to properly pump liquid through the cornea. Have you ever been told you have corneal edema?

Jist throwing out a different opinikn in case it helps.