Medication and drier eyes.

[Colin P]

Over the years, has anyone ever experienced or know of any other cases of Medication being took, and having a side effect of making there dry eye's drier?....

Codine pain killers gave me a dry mouth/throat which is listed in 'possible side effects' as for my eyes, i never noticed a difference...

[Colin P]

Wow! so nobody has any experience of eyes getting 'drier' with any type of medication whatsoever..
No need to worry about this no-more, and any 'anti' anti-depressents doubters can rest easy now..

[jenny2008]

yes i do.. when i had dental work and took lortab i got severe dry eyes from it.. had to switch to reg aleve and deal with teh mouth pain....

[lulu]

Colin
Co codamol is a nightmare for dryness, especially the prescribed one which is quite trippy, well for me it is, anyhow, for you it is clearly not a problem. I was on these on a semi regular basis and before this last flare, which incidently is still going strong, I had taken them 3 nights in a row, and call me sceptical, but.......
I do have other fairly troublesome health issues and have to be mindful of what I now put in my mouth unless that is, I want my eyeballs to stick to my eyelids!! I am one of those "anti anti depressant" crew as painful experience has taught me what to avoid and what is less unpleasant to my eyes, all a case of benefit outweighing risk or perhaps the other way around. I do find depression a problem but in the last Five or so years that I have had this problem, I unfortunately have had to keep medication to an absolute minimum least I cause more suffering which could well cause me to spiral further. There really do seem to be quite a few around whom also share the same reaction. I do take a very mild dose of a nordrenaline re uptake inhibitor, I seem to remember that venlafaxine helped you? Venlafaxine caused mydriasis in both my pupils so I had to come of that post haste.
I have auto immune problems which often go hand in hand with meds not being tolerated that well. Morphine is a bad one for me and in fact I have now allergic to it, fentanyl is not so bad. I have to admit that I love aneasthetic just because I dont have a care in the world in that moment before I drift off........It s not so good after though. Dental work upsets my eyes due I think to the adrenaline they use in the shots. Oh and I never use cold remedies unless I want problems with my eyes, even in my good spells, if they ever happen again! Apart from that I dont know what else to say, just trial and error really.
Lulu

[Colin P]

Thank's for the reply Lulu and Jenny!. I also took co-codamol as a pain killer which didn't work but like you Lulu it really clams you down, to the extent that everything is good in the world (the 'co-' is Cocaine) and i did get very noticable dry mouth and throat with it, and wont rule out, that it may have a drying of eyes? given that it did nothing for pain relief, it's only purpose was the calming down effect- so yep i agree, Co-codamol is one to avoid as there are other calming measures like Promazine. It was just that i did not want anyone scared witless of any form of medication because of the 'what if??' scenario.
I found myself doing this, a zero tolerance to any medication whatsoever incase it impacted on my eyes, and re-the Venlaflaxine, yes it works for me, but i was petrified of it, and other than going all the way to the brink i would not go near an anti depressent because of the what if scenario??.
As it happens, it was the best thing i have ever done! and dont want to see anybody going through this curse any longer than they have to because they dont want to try this or that, due to hearsay; I wanted to hear from somebody who can confirm they experienced drier eyes due to x,x or x...
Now ive been guilty of on more than one occasion, wrongly presuming were all in the same boat, and once ive hit on something- we should all see a benefit.
I know were all differing in symptoms and what brings this on- for instance, i have never had Red eyes, where as plenty of people do.
Has anyone seen it actualy mentioned anywhere in the enclosed directions (possible side-effects) the need to be wary of Dry Eyes, as all i ever seem to read is pressure, Yellowing or Glaucoma, is it a case of these manufacturers not acknowledging dry-eyes or is the possiblity of it, that miniscule?...

[Schatten]

There's already a thread similar to this : http://www.dryeyezone.com/talk/showt...-cause-dry-eye

As for my medication I only take Levothyroxine against my hypothyroidism and Omeprazole (20mg smallest dose available) against my GERD, so far I've seen no relation towards an increase/decrease of symptoms in contrast to my mental health >.>

[Colin P]

Thank's Schatten, i had missed that recent topic somehow?.

[DCRdryeye]

I've been on a few medications over the long term and I'm sure they have contributed to my dry eye pathology. I recall being on "Serzone" (Nefazodone) and I got double vision with it, and the side effects were "blurry vision" is some cases. In my view, anything that can affect the eyes, whatever it maybe, has the potential to damage the nerves supplying feeback between the cornea and tear producing glands. Anti-depressants and analgesics work by affecting the nerves, dry eye syndrome is very much related to the nervous system. I am aware the immune system plays a role with regards to auto-immunity such as Sjogren's Syndrome (another story for another day!!). My dry eye problems started after being on Avanza (Mirtazapine). The first sign of it was a foreign body sensation on the inner corner of my left eye. A medical examination showed nothing was caught in my eye. The following week or so the left eye started weeping, and it kept weeping at a rate of about one drop every five or ten minutes. Annoying! but it would not go away and I was diagnosed with a blocked "tear duct". After conservative treatment with steroid drops failed, I was recommended for DCR surgery (a BIG mistake). As a consequence of DCR surgery my left eye developed the 'opposite' problem and become permanently bone dry. Then followed the right eye...dry too (not as bad as left). But was it the Avanza (Mirtazapine) that somehow "caused" the block in my tear duct? Or could it have caused a mimetic affect and create anti-bodies that attacked my tear glands?. It's all speculative, and without double blind clinical trials we just don't know. A meta-analysis could provide an answer, gather up the millions taking anti-depressants, opiate analgesics, etc and survey their symptoms...what is the percentage with "dry eyes" that had no such symptom before the medication??

[Colin P]

Well that's intresting DCR, my symptoms started when i shot a shard of tile in my Right eye from a motor saw January (14th!) 2011. My eye rejected it as normal, and it made it's way no nasel corner, I removed it with my little finger. Ive done similair things over the years and it results in a scratch that heals overnight or in a day or two. Now hears the bizzare/intresting bit..!!..
This one was a little bit worse and on night 1, i was hoping it would be gone in the morning.... It wasn't and i was convinced there was another piece in there which i couldn't see?. A trip to the walk in centre, and nope! nothing in there.... It felt like a small stone was rolling round in bottom Right eyelid, i was now hating this, and beginning to panic after 2 days of this. To cut a long story short, and it's a long shot! could i have worried myself into a frenzy and created this situation myself????.. I had symptoms, like White dry powder deposits in corners of eyes, but every trip to opthamolagist, they said a slight aqueas defficiency but sorry cant see a problem! to which my panic got worse and worse- and was going downhill fast. The same scratch appeard every day at roughly same time every day (11am) and was dreadfull it lasted all day! "i can't continue like this" and opthamolagist maintains theres nothing wrong?. This scenario ive seen a few times written by other forum users (taken out the loop-opth can see nothing wrong). It's no-secret i ended up in depressive state and 6 weeks in hospital over this.
Now in hospital i was put on anti-depressent, ive made progress recently despite the winter commencing which by rights is worse for dry eyes sufferer than the summer, due to the lack of moisture in the air (warm air carries more moisture) Im now in the position where, not felt anxiety for a over a week not put a drop all day in my Left eye for 2-3 weels now, and for nearly a week none in the right eye either? ONLY BEDTIME....
Has the Anti depressent calmed me that much, im not panic stricken anymore and slowly my syptoms are lifting? which were manufactured by me in the first place?.
I no-longer get the gritty eyes or corneal erosion not for 4-5 months now! the white powder is almost gone now,no pulsing pain for 2 weeks, and i'm on 1 drop a day (bedtime) and no night mask since August either!.
(Q).. WHY AM I GETTING BETTER??

Possible (A).. I was not capable of improving my mental state, and once the anti-depressents worked fully (3-4 months) they improved me- confidence built back up, symptoms improving and i prey competely go.....

Therefore Anti-depressents fix-mental state, which in turn fixes my 'manufactured' dry-eyes.. A long shot i know; but im going with it.
A turning point was when, i was already starting to think maybe-just maybe? and a forum user told me about a chat with rebecca about 'accomodative eye spasm'.
I then thought maybe it's this? once there was a glimmer of hope, the mental side turned tide and for some reason, i'm getting there....

The shard of tile and dry eyes starting same day? now that's some co-incidence!..

One more thing-honest!....
My eyes tear now(plenty), if i close them for 10mins or yawn- where as before it took at least 5 yawns to squeeze out a single refreshing tear.

[Colin P]

(Q) Are you one of these people, who are getting told by 'experts' try this? or try 'that' cos there perplexed as to why youre experiencing dry eye?.
(Q) Are you one of these people, with no-diagnosis and in a depressive state?.

DONT GIVE IN, this may possibly be self-inflicted/exaggerated misery?...

[sazy123]

Yes my eyes went from being mildly dry to severly dry after a round of antidepressents.

[DCRdryeye]

Hi Colin, sometimes things just get better, there may be no reason other than the body trying to heal itself. I'm not sure if I'd agree with the scratchy feeling in the eye being due to stress, often a small trauma to the eye (such as occurred with you) can create a lingering foreign body sensation that takes time to heal. Your injury may have taken all that time, throughout your hospitalization etc to heal...and yet it may-be simply a coincidence that you had taken antidepressants and reduced stress/depression. The reduction in stress/depression doesn't necessary mean it's contributed to your eye improvements. Whilst on the other hand, severe stress certainly does trigger the sympathetic nervous system and "dry eyes and mouth" is a sympathetic symptom. However, stress induced dry eye wouldn't create the type of symptoms you described your eye to have had. In all honesty, we could analyze it until the cows come home, the bottomline is that your eyes have dramatically improved now...so enjoy them how and why it happened is irrelevant.
Regarding your hospitalization, was that because of depression? If so, it must have been severe, and it's very easy to become depressed due to "knowing" you have a probable permanent eye condition. What compounds the problem is GUILT. Guilt can not only 'cause' the depression but drive it further and deeper. I bet there are thousands of echoes in this dry eye forum whispering, "If only I had not had Lasik"... guilt, guilt, guilt. Then coupled with guilt is ANGER at the lasik eye doctors for not having provided the relevant warnings on potential side effects. And ANGER AT SELF for having been silly enough to allow someone to f*** with with my eyes. Anger turned inward leads to depression. Anger, guilt, depression...it's a powerful force and requires serious intervention. I've been there!!

[Colin P]

Hi DCR.. A long shot i know, but my foreign body sensation was due to eyes drying out to create an abrasion? was i sub-consiously or worrying my tear prodcing productivity, i was thinking/worrying/panicing about in 24/7, no-sleep, hardly eating etc being run-down wont have helped.
I read elsewhere on here last night- "get your anxiety under control and the symptoms will improve".. Trouble is, how do you get your anxiety under control?.
Without going to deep, my specialist in the hospital told me that you can self induce pain mind over matter etc, at the time i thought "i dont belive a word of this, and it's a pretty lame attempt at trying to perk me up?" i replied "so you can ignore tooth-ache could you?" to which he replied "i have!" he would not be allowed to say things like that if there was nothing in it, and it was in a room of 3x doctors + me at the time...
I just want to give anyone on a downward spiral like i was, the idea that things could improve to a managable situation.
I didnt belive a word of it myself at the time! and needed meds to do it for me. If you go into something with fear and 'this aint gonna work, make me worse' it will fail miserably when youre focusing as acutely as i/we are.. A forum member once told me they had embarked on anti-depressents with hope (perhaps too much hope?) and sure enough reported increased tearing, but a matter of days later anxiety came rushing back and the opossite happend "i'm feeling worse" and stopped.
How powerfull is the mind??..

[DCRdryeye]

Hi Colin, yes there is definitely a thing called "mind over matter". If you were getting yourself into an intense distressed state of mind due to the "foreign body sensation" in the eye, the intensive stress can increase your perception of pain. It's also a proven science fact, stress influences chemicals that make us more sensitive to pain (eg: prostaglandin E2). I was with a friend in hospital a few months ago who only had two days to live. He was STRESSED OUT TO THE MAXIMUM and his whole body was extremely sensitive to pain. I went to give him a massage around the upper back and just a light touch sent him jumping through the roof. Imagine how he'd handle needles!!, unfortunately I wasn't there during those times to hear his screams. That's an extreme example, but definitely, stress, anxiety and depression certainly increase our perception of pain.
You asked two main questions, "How do you get your anxiety under control"? and "how powerful is the mind?" - I recommend taking responsibility, knowing that we have more control over our bodies than we think. I have a website that provides (in my opinion) the best programs available to use the mind to reduce anxiety. Go to www.mindivine.com.au and have a browse around. I highly recommend "Abolish Anxiety". With regards to your second question "How powerful is the mind"... My answer is, "More powerful than we could ever imagine", perhaps read through the information on my website under "About Self-healing" for further insight.

[lulu]

Hi Colin
I had a psyciatrist tell me that I must ignore the pain I had with my severely damaged bladder, did not know I had IC at the time. So I took him at his word and soldiered on with lots of postive thoughts. Result, I am probably going to have to now have it removed. Point being, had I listened to my own gut instinct and gone and got helo sooner, I would have less scarring and perhaps more chance of keeping it for a little longer. To be honest I am not an isolated case.
Having said that I would certainly advise anyone whom is spiraling downhill to enlist the company of the mental health services, but to keep an open mind about any automatic assumptions that any doctor may make about the cause of any illness. It is not always the case, some mental health proffesionals are excellent at accepting a patient has an organic illness which is not somatic.
I would certainly not take away from you the steps which led to your recovery, but I must say that it is often the case that some illnesses do improve automatically, and yes antideppresants are a good tool for some folk in which they help you to feel better in yourself. But years of experience of both my problems and others tends to bear out what DCR has said.
Mind over matter is a great tool and I have used it myself, it does not improve my symptoms but can occasionally help me to feel less gloomy about my situation. I am on my third really big flare of this and sadly my remmissions are shorter than they were, so yes it is very scary and depressing but I also am wise enough to know that increasing my antidepressants will lead to a worsening of my dryness and lord knows where I would be!
Interestingly enough DCR i am also on Mirtazapine, a very low dose but still ...........
I am happy for you Colin and long may your good health continue, your story is heartening to hear for many on here whose causes of dry eyes are so varied, but the message is the same, who knows when things may get better, we can live in positive hope.
Lulu