Meibography Grade

[Milo007]

How can you go from a grade 2 to 0 when a grade is based of how much gland atrophy has occurred?

The only way would be if the glands regenerated. I am slightly confused if he's referring to the grades of meibum secretions which can definitely go from grade 2 (cloudy secretions) to grade 0 (clear and thin secretions).

[epicjinx]

You mean your glands regenerated?!

This is awesome!

Do you have the before and after meibography images?

They didn't regenerate. I didn't have any loss to start with? Just at the start some of my glands were blocked.

[epicjinx]

The only way would be if the glands regenerated. I am slightly confused if he's referring to the grades of meibum secretions which can definitely go from grade 2 (cloudy secretions) to grade 0 (clear and thin secretions).

She* my quality of oil got better, I never had any majors issues to start with regarding loss at all.

[Topher3]

The only way would be if the glands regenerated. I am slightly confused if he's referring to the grades of meibum secretions which can definitely go from grade 2 (cloudy secretions) to grade 0 (clear and thin secretions).

Yeah however the whole post was in regards to grading of gland atrophy not secretions so that’s why I was confused.

[Guest]

I see, I was told anything below 10 is a sign of aqueous deficiency. I am borderline at 10. In your case it sounds like plugs may help you!

I’m curious who told you that and what the basis for that statement was. I had a schirmer of 3/4 and I do NOT have aqueous deficiency. I had a transient Aquarius deficiency because the inflammation was preventing the lacrimal gland from functioning properly, but as soon as the inflammation subsided with steroids, well, my eyes are tearing down my face and I just woke up. Pretty common for me now after I added the cpap. Of course I’m on doxy, steroids, etc. but my pint is that I didn’t have a true aqueous problem and I was less than half of 10 on schirmer. Matter of fact, when I first saw my doctor he did a wash of my eye and collected the tears/liquid. He said, you have tears, I put in 50 micro liters of fluid and retrieved more. You have tears. He was right. Mind you, he works with mainly aqueous deficient patients. So he knew as soon as he looked at my eye I wasn’t aqueous deficient.

So my point, don’t lose hope. You sound very much like me. I’m curious if you have a lot of mucous in your eyes also? Are things worse when you wake up or as the day progresses?

[Alix]

I’m curious who told you that and what the basis for that statement was. I had a schirmer of 3/4 and I do NOT have aqueous deficiency. I had a transient Aquarius deficiency because the inflammation was preventing the lacrimal gland from functioning properly, but as soon as the inflammation subsided with steroids, well, my eyes are tearing down my face and I just woke up. Pretty common for me now after I added the cpap. Of course I’m on doxy, steroids, etc. but my pint is that I didn’t have a true aqueous problem and I was less than half of 10 on schirmer. Matter of fact, when I first saw my doctor he did a wash of my eye and collected the tears/liquid. He said, you have tears, I put in 50 micro liters of fluid and retrieved more. You have tears. He was right. Mind you, he works with mainly aqueous deficient patients. So he knew as soon as he looked at my eye I wasn’t aqueous deficient.

So my point, don’t lose hope. You sound very much like me. I’m curious if you have a lot of mucous in your eyes also? Are things worse when you wake up or as the day progresses?

An optometrist at a dry eye clinic here in London told me this. I don’t have any medical background or training so I have to believe what medical professionals are telling me.

My left eye which is the problematic one is stinging when I wake up and then feels and looks the worst in the evening after a long day in an air conditioned office in front of the computer. I have used sleeping goggles and they didn’t make any difference.

There is never any mucous. I’m coming round to the idea that the problem is in fact that I’m a partial blinker (found this out with Lipiview) and the inflammation is due to my eye being permanently exposed. Hopefully sclerals will fix this - not a solution but the next best thing.

[Guest]

An optometrist at a dry eye clinic here in London told me this. I don’t have any medical background or training so I have to believe what medical professionals are telling me.

My left eye which is the problematic one is stinging when I wake up and then feels and looks the worst in the evening after a long day in an air conditioned office in front of the computer. I have used sleeping goggles and they didn’t make any difference.

There is never any mucous. I’m coming round to the idea that the problem is in fact that I’m a partial blinker (found this out with Lipiview) and the inflammation is due to my eye being permanently exposed. Hopefully sclerals will fix this - not a solution but the next best thing.

My partial blinking was also a side effect of inflammation a chronic conjunctivitis. Same with the lagopthalmos. I have neither issue now. I don’t need to tape my eyes to sleep. I don’t have partial blinks. But again, those were side effects of the conjunctivitis. Once it was cleared, me eyelids functioned properly again. I’m not saying you have conjunctivitis, but I am saying once things get out of whack, you have a hard time determining what’s a cause and what’s a side effect.

Also, I implore you to research things yourself and not trust what doctors tell you. Which you’re doing because you’re here which is great. But these doctors are humans and most have zero idea what you’re going through. No one will care about your eyes as much as you. Keep researching and try to give better care. I know it’s hard where you’re at, I really wish you the best.

[Alix]

My partial blinking was also a side effect of inflammation a chronic conjunctivitis. Same with the lagopthalmos. I have neither issue now. I don’t need to tape my eyes to sleep. I don’t have partial blinks. But again, those were side effects of the conjunctivitis. Once it was cleared, me eyelids functioned properly again. I’m not saying you have conjunctivitis, but I am saying once things get out of whack, you have a hard time determining what’s a cause and what’s a side effect.

Also, I implore you to research things yourself and not trust what doctors tell you. Which you’re doing because you’re here which is great. But these doctors are humans and most have zero idea what you’re going through. No one will care about your eyes as much as you. Keep researching and try to give better care. I know it’s hard where you’re at, I really wish you the best.

How did you get rid of the conjunctivitis? None of the doctors I’ve seen have mentioned any possibility of me having this conditon - is it possible to have chronic conjunctivitis for over a year?

I have atrophied glands because of my partial blinking. I’ll keep researching for sure but I’m not very optimistic about my future.

[Guest]

How did you get rid of the conjunctivitis? None of the doctors I’ve seen have mentioned any possibility of me having this conditon - is it possible to have chronic conjunctivitis for over a year?

I have atrophied glands because of my partial blinking. I’ll keep researching for sure but I’m not very optimistic about my future.

I’ve had chronic conjunctivitis on and off for over 12 years I’m realizing now. So yes, even when things got terrible, I had the conjunctivitis very very bad for about a year before a doctor flipped my eyelid and told me. What’s crazy is the doctor right before this one flipped my lid also and never mentioned the conjunctivitis. Like I said, they may have no idea what they’re looking at. I’ve been on PF steroids for 7 months because it’s the only way to treat my disease. The other doctor said to me, if your pressure goes up, you gotta come off the steroids. I said, why can’t we use glaucoma drops. He said, you don’t want to take drops for drops. Well guess what the leading dry eye doctor in my state is doing, he’s giving me glaucoma drops to offset the steroid drops. So again, why am I saying this, because you have two doctors who I actually respect. They have completely different ideas on how I should be treated. The bad one wants me disabled and in pain for the sake of not taking an eye drop. The good doctor is concerned my eyes never get bad again NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES! I needed that. I needed someone to fight for my life. That’s why I keep pushing. Leave your country. Don’t give up please. You just need to meet someone who both cares AND has the knowledge and means to treat you properly.

I was so sure my future was trashed I was ready to kill myself. Now my eyes don’t burn at all...and that means almost nothing when you’re in that type of discomfort. I know I read people say that and said, that will never be me, I’ll never be ok. But I’m better than just ok. So that’s why I’m saying what I’m saying. Neither one of us can figure this out alone. But I think we are smart enough to find a doctor that can help. Good luck.

[deep_dry_eye]

@insidious988 I have Grade 3 as well, so understand your pain. I wouldn't say doctors are dumb, I just think that based on my experience here in the UK, they are only interested in sight threatening conditions like cataracts or glaucoma as they like to feel like they are saving lives or being heroic. Have had doctors openly telling me that they have more important things to do than dealing with people like me, with dry eyes.

Would you ever consider getting scleral lenses?

You can't blame the drs (I'm not from UK). Even here in Canada, opthamologists (public) don't care about dry eyes, only (some) optometrists (private, patient paid) care. The problem is that 1] dry eyes is a relatively new disease, opthamologists never learn about it in school, 2] opthamologists have limited time, you have patients with glaucoma and retinal diseases who will go blind tmr if you don't fix it ASAP, vs dry eys which is seen as "just pain" and not causing blindness tmr, additionally, conditions like lasik and cataract surgery are way more lucrative (at least in terms of how billing works in canada). Its really unfortunate. I've talked to many drs, the best thing we can hope for is the education system to update itself and these drs will be educated and trained to diagnose and treat dry eyes.

Unfortunately, across many countries including Canada and the UK, there are massive cuts in healthcare spending, dr salaries are already really low. Part of the reason is that there's a fix budget of money (from taxes), and you spread it around , police gets some , transport gets some , etc... talk to your MP and ask them to reallocate more money into healthcare and healthcare research.

[Topher3]

I was so sure my future was trashed I was ready to kill myself. Now my eyes don’t burn at all...and that means almost nothing when you’re in that type of discomfort. I know I read people say that and said, that will never be me, I’ll never be ok. But I’m better than just ok. So that’s why I’m saying what I’m saying. Neither one of us can figure this out alone. But I think we are smart enough to find a doctor that can help. Good luck.

Hey dowork it’s awesome you’re doing so well, with all these improvements have you been able kick the moisture chamber goggles yet? Even if it be for a couple of hours? Or is that more of a permanent thing now for you, however the burning and all discomfort is gone whilst wearing them, and it’s like you’re back to normal just with glasses on?

anyways so glad to hear how you are !!!

[Milo007]

You can't blame the drs (I'm not from UK). Even here The problem is that 1] dry eyes is a relatively new disease, opthamologists never learn about it in school, 2] opthamologists have limited time, you have patients with glaucoma and retinal diseases who will go blind tmr if you don't fix it ASAP, vs dry eys which is seen as "just pain" and not causing blindness tmr, additionally, conditions like lasik and cataract surgery are way more lucrative (at least in terms of how billing works in canada).

Yes dry eyes are not sight threatening in most cases but anyway it affects your life to the point that you become suicidal. You lose your self as a person. You become an individual with low self esteem. Anxiety and depression kicks in gradually and grows every moment. You start to believe that it's impossible to live like this for another 50 years. And that pushes you more towards the thought that life's not worth it anymore and it's better to kill yourself.

Meteorologist Jessica Star killed herself and still there's no change in view point regarding corneal surgeries like LASIK. They keep on fooling patients with false assurity and lure them for financial benefit.

[Guest]

Hey dowork it’s awesome you’re doing so well, with all these improvements have you been able kick the moisture chamber goggles yet? Even if it be for a couple of hours? Or is that more of a permanent thing now for you, however the burning and all discomfort is gone whilst wearing them, and it’s like you’re back to normal just with glasses on?

anyways so glad to hear how you are !!!

Man, good question.....I cannot take them off. At 60 seconds I start blinking like an insane person. At 3 minutes I feel that menthol feeling. Haven’t tried past that. I sleep in these glasses too to prevent the air from the cpap hitting my eyes. They’re literally the single best item I’ve bought besides a hot compress.

So I asked my doc if I could ditch them. He said as long as you have the floppy eyelid, no. I need surgery to shorten the eyelids to reduce that redundant tissue. My issue is that the tears aren’t spreading because my lids aren’t firm. My oil isn’t expressing well for the same reason. It’s just mush in there..so there’s no pressure from the eyelid to push anything out. That’s my take anyway.

Thank you, I never thought I’d get here. I hope everyone else gets to a good place soon. Hope you’re doing well too brother!

[Guest]

Yes dry eyes are not sight threatening in most cases but anyway it affects your life to the point that you become suicidal. You lose your self as a person. You become an individual with low self esteem. Anxiety and depression kicks in gradually and grows every moment. You start to believe that it's impossible to live like this for another 50 years. And that pushes you more towards the thought that life's not worth it anymore and it's better to kill yourself.

Meteorologist Jessica Star killed herself and still there's no change in view point regarding corneal surgeries like LASIK. They keep on fooling patients with false assurity and lure them for financial benefit.

I know for a fact we suffer more than most people. So no one can understand why we’re so upset, all we have is dry eye right? They don’t get it. If they did...if you could have your doctor love a week in your pain. They would stop EVERYTHING to fix this. That’s why I’m lucky I met Dr J**n, he knows I cannot let my eyes get that bad again. He was very very concerned about that. He knows.

[Milo007]

I know for a fact we suffer more than most people. So no one can understand why we’re so upset, all we have is dry eye right? They don’t get it. If they did...if you could have your doctor love a week in your pain. They would stop EVERYTHING to fix this. That’s why I’m lucky I met Dr J**n, he knows I cannot let my eyes get that bad again. He was very very concerned about that. He knows.

That's why I always pray to God make more and more doctors suffer from this hopeless disease so that they kick their ass and start taking things seriously. I really want those doctors to suffer themselves badly who doesn't take dry eyes seriously. I think the best doctors would be those who are the worst patients.

A couple of things that I wanted to ask you : How does the inside of your eyelids look now (in terms of color) after all the aggressive anti inflammatory therapy?

Also have your meibomian glands returned to their normal functionality?