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  • #16
    Originally posted by orange86 View Post


    Yes, i've had 13x IPL's ikervis, azyer eye drops, Regener Eyes, probing, lipiflow, oral anti biotics which gave me gastritis, all manor of fish oils, strict AIP diet for 5 months, liver detox protocol with supplements, nothing has worked. It's as though i took Accutane... I have non obvious mgd (without signs of obvious inflammation) which might explain why the anti inflammatory treatments have not worked.

    I'm at a loss with this disease, i've thrown everything i can at it (with available treatments in my country), yet nothing seems to stop the atrophy and thick meibum.
    I'm giving up the will to live, the suffering of severe mgd and cn pain has got too much for me to bear.
    What IPL protocol does your doctor do? Do they do IPL directly on the lids with metal corneal shields? I had 5 IPLs with a doctor that did the Toyo's protocol (only face/cheeks and temples) and the improvements were super minimal. TBUT and LLTs were almost the same before and after 5 IPLs. I switched over to a doctor that did the Periman protocol (face, forehead, and directly on the eyelids) and after one of those, my TBUT and LLT had already started improving. Also how many weeks are you spacing the treatments? I've been doing them every 3 weeks, I'm soon gonna switch to every 2 weeks. I think if you wait too long, the IPLs won't be as effective.

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    • #17
      What IPL protocol does your doctor do? Do they do IPL directly on the lids with metal corneal shields? I had 5 IPLs with a doctor that did the Toyo's protocol (only face/cheeks and temples) and the improvements were super minimal. TBUT and LLTs were almost the same before and after 5 IPLs. I switched over to a doctor that did the Periman protocol (face, forehead, and directly on the eyelids) and after one of those, my TBUT and LLT had already started improving. Also how many weeks are you spacing the treatments? I've been doing them every 3 weeks, I'm soon gonna switch to every 2 weeks. I think if you wait too long, the IPLs won't be as effective.

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      • #18
        romeodakins
        deep_dry_eye
        phenix01
        lipino

        The current probing doc did IPL on the lower lids only, he places rubber shields on my eyes.
        None of the dry eye clinics i've been to in England do upper lids or use metal shields.

        I had IPL with the probing doc last week (session 3), he said my tbut is now L 10 and R 12 which i was shocked at as 1 month ago it was L 2 and R 3 (session 2). He said most of my glands are flowing oil besides a few which are still cloudy.
        My eyes are still red and i suffer from CN, so have eye pain which can feel feel like classic mgd burning.
        I suspect my oil quality is still not ideal (as eyes are still red) and im concerned i could regress.

        Probing doc treatment plan:
        1) probing + IPL (tbut 2 and 3)
        2) probing + IPL (tbut 2 and 3)
        3) IPL (tbut 10 and 12)
        4) IPL (in August)

        It was only at session 3 where he said my tbut is higher, the at home treatments i've been performing around that time are using: Regener Eyes, Evo Tears, very gentle manual gland expression with paddles however i stopped this soon after session 3 due to it flaring my cn pain.
        I go back to him in 1 month for session 4, will ask him about the tbut then.

        I also picked up a pair of scan fit pro sclerals, but they were shockingly uncomfortable wearing them for 5 hours, red eyes, sore and painful. I will go against clinics advice and just wear an hour a day till i get better climatised to them.
        Last edited by orange86; 21-Jul-2021, 10:54.

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        • #19
          Wait so how do you feel? Do you feel better after the 3rd IPL with the probing doc? 10s or higher TBUT is supposed to be normal...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by romeodakins View Post
            Wait so how do you feel? Do you feel better after the 3rd IPL with the probing doc? 10s or higher TBUT is supposed to be normal...
            Eyes feel less dry but still not normal. I went on the treadmill today and eyes burned a little and went more red. Normal tbut range is 10 to 30 seconds, i think i need higher tbut and probably better LLT to feel normal.

            The improvement in tbut came sometime after the 2nd session, however i did not notice it due to severe CN pain i was suffering.
            I'm still surprised my tbut has increased so much in 1 month - from session 2 to session 3. I'm not sure if i can attribute it all to probing and ipl as IPL never worked for me before and probing doesnt thin the oils. Maybe Regener Eyes?
            Last edited by orange86; 21-Jul-2021, 23:09.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by orange86 View Post

              Eyes feel less dry but still not normal. I went on the treadmill today and eyes burned a little and went more red. Normal tbut range is 10 to 30 seconds, i think i need higher tbut and probably better LLT to feel normal.

              The improvement in tbut came sometime after the 2nd session, however i did not notice it due to severe CN pain i was suffering.
              I'm still surprised my tbut has increased so much in 1 month - from session 1 to session 2. I'm not sure if i can attribute it all to probing and ipl as IPL never worked for me before and probing doesnt thin the oils. Maybe Regener Eyes?
              When you did all the IPLs before probing, what did your doctor say about your oil output? Did they ever rate the quality of the oils (rated from 1-5, 1 being the best)? Did they say all the glands are producing oils or were some of them not producing anything? It could be possible that probing unblocked the glands such that all the non-producing ones started producing again? Even though the quality of the oils aren't good, maybe theres just more coming out now.

              What's your LLT btw?

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              • #22
                Prior to seeing this probing doc, all previous IPLs the docs have said oils are expressing cloudy, worse on the inner corner glands close to the nose.

                Last week probing doc said glands are flowing with clear oils bar a few that are cloudy, but maybe oil quality isnt great?!
                He only performs IPL on lower glands, there is the London Dry eye clinic that performs on uppers however its 150 and expensive train ride to get there.

                Probing unblocks glands but doesn't resolve thick oils. My eyes are still red, nothing seems to help with this - be it regener eyes, steriod drops, ast, etc

                He doesn't have lipiview so dont know the LLT sadly.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by orange86 View Post
                  Prior to seeing this probing doc, all previous IPLs the docs have said oils are expressing cloudy, worse on the inner corner glands close to the nose.

                  Last week probing doc said glands are flowing with clear oils bar a few that are cloudy, but maybe oil quality isnt great?!
                  He only performs IPL on lower glands, there is the London Dry eye clinic that performs on uppers however its 150 and expensive train ride to get there.

                  Probing unblocks glands but doesn't resolve thick oils. My eyes are still red, nothing seems to help with this - be it regener eyes, steriod drops, ast, etc

                  He doesn't have lipiview so dont know the LLT sadly.
                  Does your current doc do the IPLs directly on the lower lids with corneal shields? I think it's worth going to the other doc if they do the uppers and lowers directly using metal corneal shields. I've had 5 IPLs done with the Toyo's method (just lowers) and 3 done with the Periman method (uppers and lowers) and I feel like each of the Periman IPLs were way more effective than the Toyo's ipls. You'll actually be saving money since each IPL will be more cost-effective. I am paying $550 per IPL so imo 150 is not bad!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by orange86 View Post
                    Prior to seeing this probing doc, all previous IPLs the docs have said oils are expressing cloudy, worse on the inner corner glands close to the nose.

                    Last week probing doc said glands are flowing with clear oils bar a few that are cloudy, but maybe oil quality isnt great?!
                    He only performs IPL on lower glands, there is the London Dry eye clinic that performs on uppers however its 150 and expensive train ride to get there.

                    Probing unblocks glands but doesn't resolve thick oils. My eyes are still red, nothing seems to help with this - be it regener eyes, steriod drops, ast, etc

                    He doesn't have lipiview so dont know the LLT sadly.
                    Hi, is your dry eye due to blepharitis/mgd then, and nothing to do with aqueous deficiency? I'm in the same boat and have been given 300mg tetracycline for a month

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jack1988 View Post

                      Hi, is your dry eye due to blepharitis/mgd then, and nothing to do with aqueous deficiency? I'm in the same boat and have been given 300mg tetracycline for a month

                      hi jack, i have straight up mgd.
                      i had AD but it resolved with ikervis.

                      Apparently there is a clinic in coventry that does ipl on upper and lower lids , going to enquire.

                      Maybe doing both lids is more effective than just lowers?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by orange86 View Post


                        hi jack, i have straight up mgd.
                        i had AD but it resolved with ikervis.

                        Apparently there is a clinic in coventry that does ipl on upper and lower lids , going to enquire.

                        Maybe doing both lids is more effective than just lowers?
                        I think that's true too. Can you let me know about the place in Coventry? I pay 300 atm for upper and lower in London.

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                        • #27
                          jack1988

                          100 for dry eye assement
                          225 for IPL on m22 machine.

                          Need to take time off work as they dont do ipl on weekend.

                          https://dryeyedoctor.co.uk/prices/

                          this disease is horrifically expensive.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by orange86 View Post
                            jack1988

                            100 for dry eye assement
                            225 for IPL on m22 machine.

                            Need to take time off work as they dont do ipl on weekend.

                            https://dryeyedoctor.co.uk/prices/

                            this disease is horrifically expensive.
                            Hi, this is just for lower lids, I'm afraid

                            Kind regards

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by jack1988 View Post

                              Hi, this is just for lower lids, I'm afraid

                              Kind regards
                              I spoke to a guy who had IPL on upper and lowers at Eye Tech, with the Lumenis M22 IPL.
                              I might call them tomorrow to confirm.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by orange86 View Post

                                I spoke to a guy who had IPL on upper and lowers at Eye Tech, with the Lumenis M22 IPL.
                                I might call them tomorrow to confirm.
                                Oooh that's not what i was told. Let me know what they say. How did the probing go?

                                Have you changed your diet btw? That seems to have helped me. No dairy, gluten or sugar

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