Avenova with Neutrox™ 0.01% HOCL vs OCuSOFT HOCL 0.02% Eyelid and Eyelash Spray

[Max]

I just wrote this email to OCusoft with a very reasonable question:

I've been using Avenova which contains Neutrox™, "NovaBay’s proprietary, pure, stable form of hypochlorous acid (HOCl) 0.01%
without bleach impurities. Avenova claims it's HOCL is a preservative on the label, but then their Neutrox™ is noted as its proprietary ingredient which again, is the HOCL!

I just found OCuSOFT HypoChlor 0.02% Hypochlorous Acid Eyelid and Eyelash Spray 2 fl. OZ (59ml) for much less money and requires no prescription - buying it only from my doctor has been, frankly, a pain in the rump. 1/2 the time, his staff doesn't know what I am talking about when I order my next bottle.

How does OCcusoft's Hypochlorous Acid differ from Avenova's Hypochlorous Acid other than being stronger and more affordable? Is your product a less pure, stable form of HOCl?

Because Avenova identifies their 0.01% HOCl as their proprietary ingredient, Neutrox™, it available by prescription only and is more difficult to buy and much more expensive.

I just purchased another bottle of Avenova recently, following instructions, I go through 2 bottles a month at $32 a bottle each and the bottle contains 40ml (1.35 oz), and then I saw the OCcusoft product on Amazon and decided to give it a try, but I want to know why one is weaker but prescription based, and one is stronger but OTC. The FDA's information is very unclear.

Is there a difference in the purity level of the OCcusoft HOCL?

Here is Avenova PDF addressing differences in their product but I'm not convinced OCcuoft uses a less pure form of HOCL.

http://novabay.com/wp-content/upload...tc-product.pdf

"Avenova claims that the production of commerical harmaceutical form, has been very challenging, as the pH must be maintained at 3.5 to 6 in order for hypochlorous acid to remain in this form3 (1). Over-acidification of hypochlorous acid leads to formation of mostly chlorine in NaCl aqueous solution (Figure 2). In alkaline condition, hypochlorite becomes the dominating chlorine species"

My husband is an organic chemist and he was confused as well; he suggested I request a clarification from OCusoft.

[Max]

I received a answer very quickly from OCcusoft. I'm not entirely sure which is best - I need to go over it with my husband. I still don't understand if one is better than the other. Maybe Rebecca could offer an opinion since she's at this for so long.


Avenova .01% HOCL is produced by acidification of sodium hypochlorite solution with hydrochloric acid to a pH of 3.5-4.5. NovaBay’s marketing message of “pure” hypchlorous acid means that at this low pH, it doesn’t contain sodium hypochlorite. Although at that low pH, it does contain several chlorinated species that are volatile and can only be maintained in the liquid phase equilibrium by having sealed, glass container. This sealed state is the 36 month shelf life that NovaBay markets, however, once the seal is broken and the container is open, the equilibrium rapidly shifts to the right with the loss of chlorinated species, the pH level rises, and the NovaBay product is only effective at killing bacteria for 30 days. This means it becomes nothing more than saline after 30 days of use.

In contrast, OCuSOFT HypoChlor is manufactured by electrolysis of water and salt to yield hypochlorous acid (.02%), sodium hypochlorite (.003%), and saline with a pH of 6-7. At this pH, the hypochlorous acid and sodium hypochlorite exist in balanced equilibrium with no volatile chlorine species to cause instability. As such, HypoChlor is effective and stable opened or unopened for 18 months. It is known that hypochlorous acid is more potent than sodium hypochlorite, as single species. However, equilibria of the two species at pH 6-7 would have significant concentrations of protonated acid (HOCl) to be potent and effective in its intended use."


The stable pH (6-7) of OCuSOFT HypoChlor allows for a gentler, robust and reliable product for application to eyelid tissue. It has been shown that 0.02% HypoChlor is non-irritating to ocular tissue (by Draize rabbit testing scored a perfect “0”). At pHs that are matched to physiological pH, OCuSOFT HypoChlor has no irritation potential for the period of intended use as an eyelid scrub and cleanser or when instilled directly into the eye. The FDA requires Hypochlorous acid be registered as a medical device and as such may be marketed either as a prescription (Rx) or an Over-the-Counter (OTC) product based upon intended claims. Generally, the Rx vs. OTC designation has nothing to do with percentage of principle ingredient or relative effectiveness. It is simply a box that is checked on the 510-K that clarifies the labeling for the product.

For example, OCuSOFT® HypoChlor™ Solution and OCuSOFT® HypoChlor™ Gel both contain 0.02% Hypochlorous acid and are being marketed as OTC products for use in the most severe conditions. Branded prescription products are more expensive than OTC products or generics when used in the same treatment category. OCuSOFT’s 0.02% Hypochlorous acid is twice the strength of the competing prescription brand yet is marketed OTC in order to provide maximum patient savings and ease in purchasing the product without a prescription.

If the doctor writes a prescription for Avenova, the patient can go to the pharmacy and get it filled, however, since it is a medical device, it won’t be covered under any insurance, so they will pay an out-of-pocket expense of around $30. If the doctor writes a prescription for HypoChlor, the same steps apply, only the cost to the patient will be around $20-25 for a 2 oz. bottle that will be stable for 18 months opened or unopened."

[savino]

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[savino]

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[Max]

I am ultra sentitive and can't use anything with preservatives. In a moment of weakness when buying the
OCuSoft Lid Scrub Plus PLATINUM at the same time I was buying the OCuSOFT HypoChlor. I think it's desperation at this point. Jeez I hope I'm not going to start an allergic reaction. I can't use any antibiotic or tubed lubricant - nothing with preservatives.

Since the HOCL is listed as a "preservative" in the Avenova, I guess I "assumed" no other preservatives would be necessary and OCcusoft noted above that the 0.02% HICL is in both products.

As I said above, I would love it if Rebecca chimed in, read their response, and made a comment. She's been a lifesaver for me over the years.

[Max]

Side Note: My eyesight is definitely diminishing. Example: I open the refrigerator and for the life of me I can't find obvious things like a container of milk. I think I'm working on memory more and more. I'm wondering if these constant Blepheritis insfections, the swollen red and scaby lids, plus all the efforts invested to lubricate my eyes are taking a toll not only emotionally, but on my already low vision. However no eye doctor will say anything about it - as if maybe they don't want to "frighten" me. I feel as if I'm not getting all the information I could.

Sometimes people ask each other, "if you change one thing in your life what would it be?" Without hesitation I would say DON'T GET LASIK SURGERY. Yet it's becoming overwhelming popular and every eye doctor I see for the dry eye and Bleph also does LASIK or their practice focues on LASIK. It's a kind of conflict of interest. I feel as if I'm on my own fight this thing.

I've started using the Style'n Clean device from Denmark as part of my cleaning ritual. I can't see well enough to get to the lid margins so my husband does it. I have been using the Avenova on the damp, warmed cleaning pads and was surprised when there was a bit of yellow on the pad after the cleaning? My eyes go thru so much cleaning and warm packs, I don't know if the "yellow" is debris I had been missing or some chemical respone to th Lacriserts I wear overnight or the Restaine MGD (which milky white). I wear no eye makeup. Most of the time hub and eye are just riding the seat of our pants.

[savino]

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[Max]

Hypochlorous acid is a preservative, I've used about 3 products with different concentrations of HA and was allergic to all of them.

Luckily I'm not having any problems with the Avenova and have been using it daily for about 2 months now.

[grant555]

ive tried both and the OcuSoft irritates the hell out of my eyes but the Avenova does not FWIW

[Max]

That is valuable information for me. I have had no problems with Avenova and purchased OCuSoft HOCL. But this is one case and I so wish there was more discussion from other members who have tried the OCuSoft.

I just rec'd this email from OCuSoft which provides more information about the Lid Scrub Platinum which also claims to kill demodex mite whichs we all have but the numbers increase when people have MGD as well as with age - demodex mites live in our pores and it is "suspected" that Ocular Rosacea. is a result of a reaction to their excrement. Jolly stuff. but my dry eye doctor assures me it is very relevant and not kook science. The Rosacea creme I was prescribed does claim to kill these mites but it's having little no effect on facial Rosacea - "perhaps" helping with the repeated Blepheritis but early to tell. I am now looking into IPL treatments for Rosacea which surprisingly seem to be covered by medical insurance.

Anyway, I digress, here is this gentleman's newest response to my questions, I'm posting this with permission:


"I read some of the posts at the Dry Eye Zone and it sounds like people are a little confused.

Only the HypoChlor has Hypochlorous acid in it.

The Lid Scrub Platinum has Polyaminopropyl Biguanide which is a unique low level preservative which is what gives the Platinum anti-bacterial properties.

The platinum also uses phytosphingosine which has anti-inflammatory properties.

The FDA requires Hypochlorous acid be registered as a medical device and as such may be marketed either as a prescription (Rx) or an Over-the-Counter (OTC) product based upon intended claims. We chose to market ours as OTC to make it more convenient and cost effective for the consumer.

Luis Garza
Inside Sales Trainer

OCuSOFT, Inc."

[Max]

ive tried both and the OcuSoft irritates the hell out of my eyes but the Avenova does not FWIW

Response from OCusoft to your post plus added info:

Unfortunately, we do not who posted this so I can’t speak to their motivations.

I can tell you that our product did score a “0” (the best possible score) on the eye irritation test (Draize).

Courtney Ahrens
OCuSOFT, Inc

[savino]

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[Max]

What do you expect they probably tested it on people who don't have skin irritations and product allergies.

The Draize Test is an acute toxicity test devised in 1944 by Food and Drug Administration (FDA) toxicologists John H. Draize and Jacob M. Spines. Initially used for testing cosmetics, the procedure involves applying 0.5mL or 0.5g of a test substance to the eye or skin of a restrained, conscious animal, and then leaving it for set amount of time before rinsing it out and recording its effects.

The animals are observed for up to 14 days for signs of erythema and edema in the skin test, and redness, swelling, discharge, ulceration, hemorrhaging, cloudiness, or blindness in the tested eye. The test subject is commonly an albino rabbit, though other species are used too, including dogs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draize_test

[Max]

I There is also another user on Avenova testimonials who had a bad reaction to a OTC 0.02% hypochlorous acid product. Guess which one.

I haven't a clue. You sound snarky but I could only throw out a wild guess and say Rebecca Petris?

I'm using up my Avenova and then I'll give the OcCusoft a try and report back. The Avenova is very expensive and hard for me to buy from my doctor's office and you can't take a prescription to a pharmacy so since the tests were 0% problematic I am willing to try it and see how it goes. I costs a lot less and I can order it from Amazon and get in two days if it works instead of fighting with my doctor's office personnel who never know what I'm talking about and have even told my contact lens provider that my doctor never provides prescriptions for contact lenses when I am renewing my order for the fifth time. . Everything is a battle; they even take a week to call in a regular prescription so if I can simplify this with no physical problem, it's a win win for me.