IPL with Dr Toyos

[sazy123]

Hey,

so just doing an update.

Unfortunately i do not have good news to report (but im glad autumn does). Nice to meet you BTW very briefly.

Dr T said my secretions looked better and i had responded, and is very surprised that i feel the same. After third treatment im about the same. I know its not going to help now for deffo because he said my glands are open and did a TBUT (which came out at 8 secs) he said this was his end point where most people felt better by now (but i dont). My eyes weren't as bad (again) that day because my throat was somewhat bad, so thats why the TBUT was that high (that number sounds about right because thats what i always thought it must be when my eyes feel ok due to illnesses).

So hes gone down the allergy path again, despite me saying nothing helps for that and i dont think its that. Hes given me elsestat to try, and go back in a week- isnt helping btw.

He agrees its the dialated blood vessels in the inner eyelids causing the prob, but doesnt see the connection of that preventing my MG's working, because dry eye is the symtpom, i have all symptoms of dry eye. He said IPL wont help those vessels because its a different mechanism (this is what i suspected from the start), i did suggest that it was blood vessels but not of outer eyelids, but inner eyelids.

Anyone else who doesnt have blocked glands... im interested to know whether you have inflamed/blood vessels of your inner eyelids??? maybe when this happens it doesnt block the glands just stops them working.

His assistant put in a drop of a glaucoma med (alphagan Sp?), after i said about the blood vessels- as that is what its supposed to reduce. She said they were all gone after that, i had too many drops in before to tell but my eyes felt quite good after that. But i cant stay on this indefinitely, because theres rebound, after this week i will try it and see what happens.

Im learning that dry eye MGD anyway is caused by vascular components, but depending on what component it is depends what treatment is needed. any inflammation in the eye causes it, where ever it is.

[msienkiewicz]

SAZY,

Don't give up! You are getting closer to finding something that helps.

Best wishes,
Melissa

[sazy123]

Im not really but thanks for your support... i may have to accept soon that i will have to live with this forever... or suicide if i cant.

I dont understand why my MGD is so different to everyone elses when my history is more or less the same= facial roacea (mild), contact lense wearer (pretty sure it messed up my eyelid blood vessels), and anti depressants.

[msienkiewicz]

Sazy,

Please do not despair. It scares me when people mention suicide because I know where I was and how real a possibility it seemed at one time. Continue to take one day at a time and know that advances are on the horizon. There has to be something that will help us.

Have you tried the lacriserts? It is not a cure, but they have helped me temendously. I know that you have near normal tear production, and I hear that mine is not too bad also - 12 and 8. They really do help to keep your own tears on the eye and create a stable tear film. I know you have had difficulty finding goggles to work with your script. Lacriserts would almost act as a goggle because they create this tear film. This reduces the burning sensation tremendously. They do not create over tearing. I think your eyes simply take what they need from the pellet as I have quite a bit left when I remove them even after 12 hours. Having worn contacts, these would be a breeze for you to insert. Please consider giving them a try if you haven't already. My first doctor told me I wasn't a candidate for these either because I had semi-good tears, but they have made me feel near normal. Perhaps you could use them only on your bad days.

Feel free to PM me anytime. I think we do have similar situations.

Blessings and prayers your way Sazy,
Melissa

[jen1982]

I want to try IPL for my eyes. i have telangiectasia on the outside of my upper eyelids, but i don't know what kind of doctor would perform it. my optometrist refered me to a plastic and reconstructive surgeon, but if he won't do anything would it be best to see an opthamalogist or a dermatoligist? i could get it done by an esthetician but i would rather a doctor do it.

[msienkiewicz]

I have a doctor willing to do it, an occular plastic surgeon, in Southeast Michigan if you are remotely close to the border.

Melissa

pm me for details if you wish.

[sazy123]

Thanks for your support.

I am trying to remain positive, but it is hard, i may have been able to remain more positive if i thought maybe i need 4 treatments (like others have) to notice relief, but dr toyos said from looking at my glands i should be feeling better.. so thats why im not.

Ive been on this elsatat, dont think its helped much, im back in two days for a check up.

My next IPL (and last if i see no results) is on the 20th but things out here are messed up now so dont know if i can stay out here that long now.

I want to add that my diet hasnt been great out here, i have eaten too much icecream, had too much alchole and im hoping that hasnt prevented things changing.

I have kept up with the grapes and salmon, although recently the salmon in take has gone down. But didnt notice anything when i was eating this every day.

My skin doesnt look much better i dont think, although dr T said it did, my diet hasnt been great lately..

Jen i have some tanglestacia on my upper eyelids, and its still there, he doesnt treat the upper eyelids.

[autumnn]

Sazy- Are you saying that you have felt NO improvement since starting this treatment? Or, are you feeling some improvement but not enough yet? I am just wondering if you are feeling ANY changes- or, if you feel the same as before treatment.
I ask this because my progress has been very slow and "up and down"....though I am supposedly ready to go onto maintenence (ie, schd my next apt in 3 months) I still have some pain at times in my left eye (it still bothers me but when I compare it to the pain I had before it is definitely less)......I believe as the weeks pass this will get better because he said that the eye was inflammed and now we are treating it with Lotemax. Dr. Toyos did not do a TBUT test on me or tell me how I am supposed to be feeling but did observe that there has been a great deal of progress in my glands despite inflammation in my face/rosacea and inflammation on my eyes. I suspect that despite positive changes, my eyes still need time to heal and repair and return to a painless state. I still trust this process and think I need the full 4 weeks after this last treatment before I can draw any more conclusions. I think it took my eyes a long time to get to the painful place they were in, I believe that it will take some time before they heal despite the help of an amazing doctor.

[Gretchen]

Autumnn -

Did Dr Toyos say why your facial rosacea would be flaring after 4 IPL's? That sounds so strange to me. IPL is indicated for treatment of several things, but for rosacea is supposed to treat telangectasias, erythemia and p&p's. Why after 4 treatments would your rosacea be flaring? IMy derm uses IPL and PDL for people who want to treat their rosacea without meds (doxy). It should be having an anti-inflammatory effect and calming it down.

Gretchen

[jen1982]

I have a doctor willing to do it, an occular plastic surgeon, in Southeast Michigan if you are remotely close to the border.

Melissa

pm me for details if you wish.

what is your doctors name and email address?

[Gretchen]

I am just going to weigh in here briefly and say that what Dr Toyos does is NOT analogous to any IPL. He goes very, very close to your eyes which no one else will do. And if they don't know what they are doing, you don't want them to. He does not treat the upper eyelids and this is NOT a cosmetic procedure. It is intended to remove eyelid neovasculature that clogs and scars MGs on the lower lid. If your Dr has not been trained explicitly by Dr Toyos, save your money. If any Dr claims to do this, asks if he has gone to a certification training with Dr Toyos and if not, be skeptical.

My 2 cents on this.
Gretchen

[autumnn]

Autumnn -

Did Dr Toyos say why your facial rosacea would be flaring after 4 IPL's? That sounds so strange to me. IPL is indicated for treatment of several things, but for rosacea is supposed to treat telangectasias, erythemia and p&p's. Why after 4 treatments would your rosacea be flaring? IMy derm uses IPL and PDL for people who want to treat their rosacea without meds (doxy). It should be having an anti-inflammatory effect and calming it down.

Gretchen

No, he didnt say why I was having a flare up- he asked about my skin products (he took me off of anything acidic), my cycle, etc. I advised him that i had great skin while on the pill and he advised that I go back on it. It seems that my skin is very related to my cycle- I was broken out before seeing him but this was a week before my period. Now that my period has passed, my skin is calm again. I am excited to be back on the pill- again, it makes my skin look great and it has never seemed to negatively affect my eyes- in fact my best eye years were when I was on the pill....strange...

I second everything you say- I would not have this done by any derm- just one that knows Dr. T's procedure well. I dont think one can understand this until they have a Dr. Toyos experience. Dr. Assil's office seemed to take this procedure very seriously and would be another option to Dr. Toyos.

[jen1982]

what would be my options then for removing the telangiectasia on my upper eyelids other than wearing makeup to just hide them. i can't wear makup anyway so that's not even an option for me.

[Gretchen]

Jen -

Have you tried mineral make-up? A good brand like Colorscience or Larinem? It is tolerated better by those of use with rosacea and allergies.

I don't know of a safe way to remove upper eyelid telangectasias.

Gretchen

[jen1982]

i can't wear any makeup and i haven't been diagnosed with rosacea or allergies. there must be some way to treat the telangiectasia on the upper eyelids. i've googled about IPL and Sclerotherapy and it says that they are both treatments for it.